Brian Clough



70s traveller said:
It's difficult to argue with what he achieved/created effective team wise with very limited resources.
Click to expand...
I like Clough , perhaps you're referring to Derby with regards limited resources, the singings of Trevor Francis , Peter Shilton , Asa Harford and Fash the Bash - would suggest diffƩrent at Forest " he should have been England manager i 1977 , he didn't have a chance with Hardaker and Croker " - Bobby Robson , 1981
 
Marseilletractor said:
I like Clough , perhaps you're referring to Derby with regards limited resources, the singings of Trevor Francis , Peter Shilton , Asa Harford and Fash the Bash - would suggest diffƩrent at Forest " he should have been England manager i 1977 , he didn't have a chance with Hardaker and Croker " - Bobby Robson , 1981
Click to expand...
I was referring to his climb out of Div2 to double EC Winner. He picked up Shilts, etc after he'd got up from my memory. I recall the 0-0 draw he got at RP with a Forest side that featured gk Middleton, c/b Needham & others. There were a few of the EC winners eg Viv Anderson but most were those that had been part of the squad that climbed from the lower reaches of Div 2. I'm probably wrong but John O'Hare was a player that featured a short time earlier, I don't recall Woodcock & Birtles featuring. His Derby side had featured a few that he took to Forest. That Derby side were ripped off by officials as they went out of the EC so he coold have won it that year with Derby. His main big money buys like Shilts & Francis were part of the progression because he'd picked up experience (like eg Frank Clark, Larry Lloyd, Kenny Burns) as he was building.
Either way he should have been given a shot with England but his methods were obviously not right for the FA.
turnthetide3 said:
I live with the wonderful pleasure of having watched him play.
Click to expand...
I'd bet he was a proper wind-up merchant on the pitch.
 
Last edited:
70s traveller said:
I was referring to his climb out of Div2 to double EC Winner. He picked up Shilts, etc after he'd got up from my memory. I recall the 0-0 draw he got at RP with a Forest side that featured gk Middleton, c/b Needham & others. There were a few of the EC winners eg Viv Anderson but most were those that had been part of the squad that climbed from the lower reaches of Div 2. I'm probably wrong but John O'Hare was a player that featured a short time earlier, I don't recall Woodcock & Birtles featuring. His Derby side had featured a few that he took to Forest. That Derby side were ripped off by officials as they went out of the EC so he coold have won it that year with Derby. His main big money buys like Shilts & Francis were part of the progression because he'd picked up experience (like eg Frank Clark, Larry Lloyd, Kenny Burns) as he was building.
Either way he should have been given a shot with England but his methods were obviously not right for the FA.

I'd bet he was a proper wind-up merchant on the pitch.
Click to expand...
No problem , i remember just as you do , excellant manger , pulled the right players to play the game he wanted it too be played. Of course we should not over look his achievements. Yes his methods would have been a bone in the throat for the likes of Hardacker and Croker - shame. I enyoved you read ,thanks.
70s traveller said:
I was referring to his climb out of Div2 to double EC Winner. He picked up Shilts, etc after he'd got up from my memory. I recall the 0-0 draw he got at RP with a Forest side that featured gk Middleton, c/b Needham & others. There were a few of the EC winners eg Viv Anderson but most were those that had been part of the squad that climbed from the lower reaches of Div 2. I'm probably wrong but John O'Hare was a player that featured a short time earlier, I don't recall Woodcock & Birtles featuring. His Derby side had featured a few that he took to Forest. That Derby side were ripped off by officials as they went out of the EC so he coold have won it that year with Derby. His main big money buys like Shilts & Francis were part of the progression because he'd picked up experience (like eg Frank Clark, Larry Lloyd, Kenny Burns) as he was building.
Either way he should have been given a shot with England but his methods were obviously not right for the FA.

I'd bet he was a proper wind-up merchant on the pitch.
Click to expand...
Yeah , i remember that EC against the Italiens, 73 i think , what a farce.
 
Last edited:
Marseilletractor said:
No problem , i remember just as you do , excellant manger , pulled the right players to play the game he wanted it too be played. Of course we should not over look his achievements. Yes his methods would have been a bone in the throat for the likes of Hardacker and Croker - shame. I enyoved you read ,thanks.
Click to expand...
The big mystery to me was John McGovern, he'd looked ordinary (at best) but what do I know. Obviously a key in BC's successful game set-ups. And why he never got full Scotland caps on the back of it? But I suppose that shows BC for what he was. BC couldn't have been too bad, he got Monty an EC winners medal to go with his FA Cup one šŸ‘
 
70s traveller said:
The big mystery to me was John McGovern, he'd looked ordinary (at best) but what do I know. Obviously a key in BC's successful game set-ups. And why he never got full Scotland caps on the back of it? But I suppose that shows BC for what he was. BC couldn't have been too bad, he got Monty an EC winners medal to go with his FA Cup one šŸ‘
Click to expand...
Yeah, but Mcgoven played the role that BC gave him at Hartlepool or is that Hartlepools ? Sorry i'm a sothern sod - but in essence, i agree with you. , should have been given the big one , instead we got Greenwood/Howe - should have gone to either BC or Bobby Robson in 77 - Hardacker would never have given it to either -historty proved him ( Hardacker ) wrong on so many counts. - love your history marrašŸ‘šŸ‘
 
Marseilletractor said:
Yeah, but Mcgoven played the role that BC gave him at or is that Hartlepools ? Sorry i'm a sothern sod - but in essence, i agree with you. , should have been given the big one , instead we got Greenwood/Howe - should have gone to either BC or Bobby Robson in 77 - Hardacker would never have given it to either -historty proved him ( Hardacker ) wrong on so many counts. - love your history marrašŸ‘šŸ‘
Click to expand...
Without putting a damper on it, if BC had been given the England job I'm not convinced it would have worked because imo it was usually run with a Southern basis of players so if Clough had tried to do things his way he would been under pressure from day one, and if he'd tried to use his preferred type of players his hands would have been tied. I'm also doubtful trying to ask those seen as the better players would have accepted it. Prime example was when he went into Leeds & tried to tell their players to do things differently. 44 days and bye bye Brian.

It would have been nice to find out though, same as with the SAFC job. He operated best where he could so things his own way & everthing was in place for him at Forest at that time. He'd apparently fallen out with the Derby chairman otherwise it could have all happened 14 miles down the road with their bitter neighbours.
Marseilletractor said:
Yeah, but Mcgoven played the role that BC gave him at Hartlepool or is that Hartlepools ? Sorry i'm a sothern sod - but in essence, i agree with you. , should have been given the big one , instead we got Greenwood/Howe - should have gone to either BC or Bobby Robson in 77 - Hardacker would never have given it to either -historty proved him ( Hardacker ) wrong on so many counts. - love your history marrašŸ‘šŸ‘
Click to expand...
Without putting a damper on it, if BC had been given the England job I'm not convinced it would have worked because imo it was usually run with a Southern basis of players so if Clough had tried to do things his way he would been under pressure from day one, and if he'd tried to use his preferred type of players his hands would have been tied. I'm also doubtful trying to ask those seen as the better players would have accepted it. Prime example was when he went into Leeds & tried to tell their players to do things differently. 44 days and bye bye Brian.

It would have been nice to find out though, same as with the SAFC job. He operated best where he could so things his own way & everthing was in place for him at Forest at that time. He'd apparently fallen out with the Derby chairman otherwise it could have all happened 14 miles down the road with their bitter neighbours. And on principle when you're given the boot where do you go? Oh the closest enemies to prove a point. Brian Clough 100%
 
Last edited:
70s traveller said:
Without putting a damper on it, if BC had been given the England job I'm not convinced it would have worked because imo it was usually run with a Southern basis of players so if Clough had tried to do things his way he would been under pressure from day one, and if he'd tried to use his preferred type of players his hands would have been tied. I'm also doubtful trying to ask those seen as the better players would have accepted it. Prime example was when he went into Leeds & tried to tell their players to do things differently. 44 days and bye bye Brian.

It would have been nice to find out though, same as with the SAFC job. He operated best where he could so things his own way & everthing was in place for him at Forest at that time. He'd apparently fallen out with the Derby chairman otherwise it could have all happened 14 miles down the road with their bitter neighbours.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Cherry , Clarke, , Madelely and Rennie were established players , otherwise agree - it was Sothern based ( see my comments abt Hardacker anf Croker ). Yes, he fell out with the chairman at Derby over his TV apparences ( bigger than than me etc ) - i think i righr in saying the players were going to strike, and that he turned up their next match and got a standing ovation . As for Leeds , that's another conversation - wrong job , wrong time and his prior comments finished that ( he was right , they were a dirty team, good team yes , but dirty ).
He wanted to play the game correctly , hat's off to BC for that.šŸ‘šŸ‘
 
Marseilletractor said:
Yes and no. Cherry , Clarke, , Madelely and Rennie were established players , otherwise agree - it was Sothern based ( see my comments abt Hardacker anf Croker ). Yes, he fell out with the chairman at Derby over his TV apparences ( bigger than than me etc ) - i think i righr in saying the players were going to strike, and that he turned up their next match and got a standing ovation . As for Leeds , that's another conversation - wrong job , wrong time and his prior comments finished that ( he was right , they were a dirty team, good team yes , but dirty ).
He wanted to play the game correctly , hat's off to BC for that.šŸ‘šŸ‘
Click to expand...
The Leeds "escapade" was wrong job wrong time. His previous comments about their methods of winning made him disliked so it was either back the old players or new manager & we know how that went. Within a short time Brian had managed to stick his fingers up at them so in essence had proved his point in football terms. I know it's only my opinion but Brian was the biggest personality in the game at that time. He was pure box office.
 
70s traveller said:
The Leeds "escapade" was wrong job wrong time. His previous comments about their methods of winning made him disliked so it was either back the old players or new manager & we know how that went. Within a short time Brian had managed to stick his fingers up at them so in essence had proved his point in football terms. I know it's only my opinion but Brian was the biggest personality in the game at that time. He was pure box office.
Click to expand...
Totally agreešŸ‘
 
sunderpitt said:
My thoughts on Clough, if the powers that were at Sunderland, had appointed him when the chance arose... I wonder if he would have been our Bill Shankley. That is set the club on a new trajectory of footballing achievement. We might have even found a lad from Hetton, to take over from him.
Click to expand...
We turned down Bill Shankley as well and gave the job to Alan Brown the man who relegated Sunderland twice.
Frank Bullitt said:
Never was. Tom Cowie was his own man who wouldn't listen to us. I don't know about the chairman before him, I can't imagine they were any different.
Click to expand...
As much as i dislike Cowie. It was Keith Collings who said he didnt what the likes of Clough at the club.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top