BBC: Why is heroin killing so many people?

[theinediblebulk]

Well done for getting of it. I'm not completely against prescribing heroin to users, administering it somewhere safe etc. The issues I see with that are that the addicts and users I speak to use as much as they can get their hands on- they say that they'll buy as many bags as they can afford or tick on for so prescribing a dose or two a day would help them but they'd still go elsewhere as well.

That's why it's not as simple as going 'You're a junky, there's some smack from the chemist'. There's conditions attached and you get tested. Turn up with more in your system than you should have and it's bye bye. TBF, you are going to do nothing for the person you describe as they don't want to do anything themselves. But for the ones that do and will stick to the conditions and work to stabilize their life and be productive in it, there the one's you do this for.

Not all herion takers are the same; some are right wankers, some are just lost.

 

[Some Random Guy]

Looks like the big boys are the "real" drug dealers. I read summat daft that prior to our invasion of Afghanistan, it accounted for about 10% of the worlds heroin. Now its about 90%. With troops guarding poppy fields under some bullshit excuse.

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Heroin was already an epidemic, part of the increased deaths is due to the aging population that started while Zammo was telling us to just say no.

While I don't doubt there will have been the odd soldier in Afghanistan 10-15 years ago that has benefited from being close to the source I think it's daft to believe it's a government/MOD conspiracy.

I really don't want to go down a conspiracy rabbit hole here mate.

 

[Man About Town]

I recommend a national euthanasia program for the dealers.

 

[Boz33]

1) The article in the op talks about crime reduction in counties that have adopted similar models. Read the article.

2) My examples there were far from turning people like this into pillars of the community. It was turning violent drug addict offenders into drug addicts that cost less and were less likely to offend.

3) If you're going to snip quotes do it right.

Fuck ya, I was eating my tea while quoting

What do you think the increase in taxes was designed to do?


Unfortunately the stats aren't backing up your argument.

To be perfectly honest, they were to raise money, keep hefting them on till the smokers wheezed and heft some more on afterwards.
If we are saying that it was purely on the grounds of health let's ramp up that tax on fat bastards food, double the price of alcohol, surely that's the best way of stopping alkies etc etc.
I'm not a smoker btw so couldn't give a monkeys what they pay, but fangs have always been an easy tax squeeze for any govt

 

[darius]

Class read by the BBC today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Heroin

Makes a compelling argument for a Swiss like model where addicts are provided with heroin in a safe environment.

It's easy. Don't take it and it won't kill you.

 

[Some Random Guy]

It's easy. Don't take it and it won't kill you.

8 pages and nobody came out with that. Bravo.

I'd say tobacco use has dropped more to the outlawing of it on pubs and the eye watering taxes rather than any substantial health drives. Maybe ban pubs from selling beer will help cut down alcoholics?

Above inflation tax rises and the outlawing it in pubs were both substantial health drives.

 

[Lonz]

Fuck ya, I was eating my tea while quoting


To be perfectly honest, they were to raise money, keep hefting them on till the smokers wheezed and heft some more on afterwards.
If we are saying that it was purely on the grounds of health let's ramp up that tax on fat bastards food, double the price of alcohol, surely that's the best way of stopping alkies etc etc.
I'm not a smoker btw so couldn't give a monkeys what they pay, but fangs have always been an easy tax squeeze for any govt

The fact is that the evidence shows that raising taxes on these sorts of goods works. It also helps fund the treatment of illnesses directly associated with them.

 

[Boz33]

8 pages and nobody came out with that. Bravo.


Above inflation tax rises and the outlawing it in pubs were both substantial health drives.

I'm not so sure the tax rises were all done in the name of health, if it's that easy why isn't beer much more expensive? Fast food? Whack the price up and see the health benefits, who could object.
The outlawing in pubs seemed a silly thing at the time, even as a none smoker I'd have seen more sense in giving pubs the option, smoking or non smoking, because it's decimated a lot of pub trade, also if folks wanna smoke let em get on with it, it's their own health their pissing away

The fact is that the evidence shows that raising taxes on these sorts of goods works. It also helps fund the treatment of illnesses directly associated with them.

Should we double the price of beer? Fast food? Health benefits etc?

 

[Lonz]

Do you think giving them free heroine will help?
I'm certainly no expert in that area but it seems a little counter-intuitive to me.


what about shoplifting?
should we have a similar approach?

I don’t think giving free heroin to shoplifters would be beneficial, no.

I'm not so sure the tax rises were all done in the name of health, if it's that easy why isn't beer much more expensive? Fast food? Whack the price up and see the health benefits, who could object.
The outlawing in pubs seemed a silly thing at the time, even as a none smoker I'd have seen more sense in giving pubs the option, smoking or non smoking, because it's decimated a lot of pub trade, also if folks wanna smoke let em get on with it, it's their own health their pissing away


Should we double the price of beer? Fast food? Health benefits etc?

Price of beer should almost definitely be increased, yes. Fast food would be difficult to define in practice.

 

[Tex]

Are people dying of heroin not just evidence of a kind of Darwinism at work?

I realize this won’t be a popular post and I’m not a complete sociopath but haway man - what kind of intelligence do you have to avoid to become embroiled in smack?

The social worker types on here will be full of sympathy for the poor souls, (and I’m impressed with the programs discussed like in Holland where they’ve turned some of the epidemic around) but doesn’t society in general have disdain for and make fun of smack rats (scousers etc.). Of course that doesn’t make it right but I’m left to wonder what kind of productive citizens become addicted to heroin besides the odd rock star? We’re they really on track to be nurses and firemen and environmental engineers and doctors and cancer researchers? Or are they more likely benefit scrounging scratters who fell out of the bottom of society?

Haway then?

 

[Boz33]

I don’t think giving free heroin to shoplifters would be beneficial, no.


Price of beer should almost definitely be increased, yes. Fast food would be difficult to define in practice.

Make it easy, pizza shops, burger joints, kebab houses, Indians, Chinese, chip shops. Double the price, strangle them with tax, save the fat whales of the country.
Same with alcohol, double the price, if we are going down the road of higher tax= healthier lifestyle

 

[zwartekat]

Does anyone actually know any heroin addicts? I think we've establishhed that they aren't a single, homogenous group so it would be interesting to know of real-life experiences and how different addicts might be impacted (no names, obviously).

 

[GK]

Are people dying of heroin not just evidence of a kind of Darwinism at work?

I realize this won’t be a popular post and I’m not a complete sociopath but haway man - what kind of intelligence do you have to avoid to become embroiled in smack?

The social worker types on here will be full of sympathy for the poor souls, (and I’m impressed with the programs discussed like in Holland where they’ve turned some of the epidemic around) but doesn’t society in general have disdain for and make fun of smack rats (scousers etc.). Of course that doesn’t make it right but I’m left to wonder what kind of productive citizens become addicted to heroin besides the odd rock star? We’re they really on track to be nurses and firemen and environmental engineers and doctors and cancer researchers? Or are they more likely benefit scrounging scratters who fell out of the bottom of society?

Haway then?

The poorer the person the more likely they'll have a heroin problem.

That might be darwinism to you but...

 

[HANDSOME_DAN]

the biggest scum of all are the dealers. honestly i think dealing smack is worse than taking a life via murder as you will take many lives indirectly and ruin countless others. death penalty.

 

[Marcosplace]

Does anyone actually know any heroin addicts? I think we've establishhed that they aren't a single, homogenous group so it would be interesting to know of real-life experiences and how different addicts might be impacted (no names, obviously).

Yes. And her kids have suffered badly.

 

[ProfessionalMackem]

Heroin was already an epidemic, part of the increased deaths is due to the aging population that started while Zammo was telling us to just say no.

While I don't doubt there will have been the odd soldier in Afghanistan 10-15 years ago that has benefited from being close to the source I think it's daft to believe it's a government/MOD conspiracy.

I really don't want to go down a conspiracy rabbit hole here mate.

Rabbit holes are class man, esp if you not got work the next day.

Okay lets rephrase the question mate. I'm gonna assume you know about the Opium wars. Now do you think that we have have progressed (or more accurately, our governments/elites have progressed) in the 150 plus years since. As not to to commit such heinous acts as what was committed against China?

 

[Some Random Guy]

I'm not so sure the tax rises were all done in the name of health, if it's that easy why isn't beer much more expensive? Fast food? Whack the price up and see the health benefits, who could object.
The outlawing in pubs seemed a silly thing at the time, even as a none smoker I'd have seen more sense in giving pubs the option, smoking or non smoking, because it's decimated a lot of pub trade, also if folks wanna smoke let em get on with it, it's their own health their pissing away

It's not easy mate, I work with someone who worked on getting the smoking ban through, it took shit loads of work over a number of years.

Alcohol costs? There are massive pushes towards getting minimum unit pricing in place man. Heard of the sugar tax? These things take years, although it may seem that way they aren't just plucked out of the air as a cash grab by the government of the day.


The pubs aren't just suffering because of The smoking ban, while it is a contributing factor remember: Smokers are a minority.

Other things could include:
-Extended opening hours, young'uns go out later.
-It's massively expensive compared to supermarket deals (this will be offset by MUP, which will happen even if it takes a decade)
-The rise of social media, we have a generation of people who are in a position where they don't need to go to the pub for a few jars to spend time with their mates.
-Weekend millionaires, why go out for a couple of pints when you can save your money and "give it large" at the weekend.
-"Cheeky Nandos", people have more options that don't need to include the pub.
-There were too many pubs for a sustainable market with today's drinking patterns.

Rabbit holes are class man, esp if you not got work the next day.

Okay lets rephrase the question mate. I'm gonna assume you know about the Opium wars. Now do you think that we have have progressed (or more accurately, our governments/elites have progressed) in the 150 plus years since. As not to to commit such heinous acts as what was committed against China?

I believe that we "the people" have better access to information and our "elite" are more accountable today for them to get away with that shit now.

Some of us do have work the next day. Plus I really just wanted the thread to be about potential solutions rather than getting into how the Illuminati increased supply.

 

[ProfessionalMackem]

Are people dying of heroin not just evidence of a kind of Darwinism at work?

I realize this won’t be a popular post and I’m not a complete sociopath but haway man - what kind of intelligence do you have to avoid to become embroiled in smack?

The social worker types on here will be full of sympathy for the poor souls, (and I’m impressed with the programs discussed like in Holland where they’ve turned some of the epidemic around) but doesn’t society in general have disdain for and make fun of smack rats (scousers etc.). Of course that doesn’t make it right but I’m left to wonder what kind of productive citizens become addicted to heroin besides the odd rock star? We’re they really on track to be nurses and firemen and environmental engineers and doctors and cancer researchers? Or are they more likely benefit scrounging scratters who fell out of the bottom of society?

Haway then?

Out the ones Ive come across they are mostly out of the bolded section of society. That doesnt mean that there arent functioning heroin addicts that stay off the radar. Out of the 15 years ive been working Ive only ever heard of a handful of people giving up entirely (heroin and methadone).

Anybody who says that your post doesnt resonate slightly with them is lying. You make some valid points. Its just my empathy kicks in and then I dont wish them dead. Well only the smelly ones, who tell me to hurry up as they got a taxi waiting............unlucky fucker. Thats you waiting extra long then.

 

[Horatio Pugwash]

I don’t think giving free heroin to shoplifters would be beneficial, no.

.

you know what i mean

 

[ProfessionalMackem]

It's not easy mate, I work with someone who worked on getting the smoking ban through, it took shit loads of work over a number of years.

Alcohol costs? There are massive pushes towards getting minimum unit pricing in place man. Heard of the sugar tax? These things take years, although it may seem that way they aren't just plucked out of the air as a cash grab by the government of the day.


The pubs aren't just suffering because of The smoking ban, while it is a contributing factor remember: Smokers are a minority.

Other things could include:
-Extended opening hours, young'uns go out later.
-It's massively expensive compared to supermarket deals (this will be offset by MUP, which will happen even if it takes a decade)
-The rise of social media, we have a generation of people who are in a position where they don't need to go to the pub for a few jars to spend time with their mates.
-Weekend millionaires, why go out for a couple of pints when you can save your money and "give it large" at the weekend.
-"Cheeky Nandos", people have more options that don't need to include the pub.
-There were too many pubs for a sustainable market with today's drinking patterns.


I believe that we "the people" have better access to information and our "elite" are more accountable today for them to get away with that shit now.

Some of us do have work the next day. Plus I really just wanted the thread to be about potential solutions rather than getting into how the Illuminati increased supply.

Fair do's marra. Another time then. I do kind of agree with the bold bit. Esp as they are trying to restrict the internet. But its not as clear cut as you make out. They have gotten away with plenty in "recent" times.