A victory for freedom of speech.... and sanity



Hep

Winger
So where do we draw the line, can I start posting racist insults to black people and claim free speech?
 
Or happily receiving his Khmer Rouge scarf, while the skulls of his parents were being neatly stacked in a field in Cambodia... ;)
Very good analogy. :lol::lol:
So where do we draw the line, can I start posting racist insults to black people and claim free speech?
Mot on a privately owned message board. I wouldn't recomend insulting people in the street either. You may get a bloody nose and if not could be deemed harassment. However if you deemed black people inferior and had arguments why then I dont see why it shouldn't be up for discourse. People shouldn't be frightened of ideas even if they find those ideas repugnant.
 
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Titus

Striker
For all the bigots on here who want free speech without bounds.

just remember how many people in the trans community commit suicide because of the non-acceptance if society.

so if you enjoy taking the piss and hounding minorities, just remember the consequences.

and whilst it’s easy to think that they should just man up, think how easy it is to say that when you’re not in their shoes.
Except that isn't the only variables that is going to influence incidences of self harm or attempted suicide. It's a fallacy.
 

Curlyteeth

Central Defender
Except that isn't the only variables that is going to influence incidences of self harm or attempted suicide. It's a fallacy.
You're right it's not, but imagine hating every second of being in your body. So much so that you want to kill yourself. Then being told by sections of society that if you change your body, to try and be happy, that what you'll become is some kind of invalid none person.
 

Titus

Striker
You're right it's not, but imagine hating every second of being in your body. So much so that you want to kill yourself. Then being told by sections of society that if you change your body, to try and be happy, that what you'll become is some kind of invalid none person.
I think it's a much more complex issue than some will admit, though. There's groups of people that historically have been discriminated against and alienated a lot more, with lower incidences of self harm and suicide. I think over the next few decades we will see a better picture, but I sense a lot of mentally ill people are misidentifying with this community out of feeling of strong group identity and acceptance amongst that group.
 

Curlyteeth

Central Defender
I think it's a much more complex issue than some will admit, though. There's groups of people that historically have been discriminated against and alienated a lot more, with lower incidences of self harm and suicide. I think over the next few decades we will see a better picture, but I sense a lot of mentally ill people are misidentifying with this community out of feeling of strong group identity and acceptance amongst that group.
Perhaps. It is a very complex situation. I just wish there was less shouting and more understanding
 
D

Deleted member 46466

Guest
That went out the window with Brexit I'm afraid. It set the country against itself.
We were almost totally unified in 2012 with the Olympic Games. Even with a Tory Government (urgh)
Brexit has broken the country and led to a rise in hate. It's undeniable.
From where I sit the only hatred appears to be for a. People who vote Conservative.
b. People who voted to leave the EU.
 

Aituk7

Striker
I think it's a much more complex issue than some will admit, though. There's groups of people that historically have been discriminated against and alienated a lot more, with lower incidences of self harm and suicide. I think over the next few decades we will see a better picture, but I sense a lot of mentally ill people are misidentifying with this community out of feeling of strong group identity and acceptance amongst that group.
I think the science is starting to bare that out.

Also consider that there are an awful lot of gay kids being told now that they are transexual and require medication. This is dangerous stuff.

Look at the tavistock clinic for gods sake


"A transgender clinic has been hit by 35 resignations in three years, as psychologists warn of “overdiagnoses” of gender dysphoria among children.

The whistleblowers said too many children were being put on puberty-blocking drugs when they should not have been given the diagnosis.

Former staff said they were unable to properly assess patients over fears they will be branded "transphobic".

35 resignations in 3 years! All because of nonsense PC gone mad culture.

This is child abuse
From where I sit the only hatred appears to be for a. People who vote Conservative.
b. People who voted to leave the EU.
Imagine if we banned that
Perhaps. It is a very complex situation. I just wish there was less shouting and more understanding
We all wish there was mate, but the truth is never easy.

And censoring people is never the answer. Education, debate, exposure always works far more than censorship.

It's no accident that the best nations humanity have ever thrown together have been the ones with the most freedoms and the worst the most censorious.
 
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zinedine

Striker
The irony being that he went to court to stop it showing up in a CRB, he didn't want a potential employer to know about it
The sad thing is that he had to do that.
It's a good job white middle aged men aren't a protected group. There'd be a few on this board who'd end up before a judge for non crime hate incidents.
 

Curlyteeth

Central Defender
I think the science is starting to bare that out.

Also consider that there are an awful lot of gay kids being told now that they are transexual and require medication. This is dangerous stuff.

Look at the tavistock clinic for gods sake


"A transgender clinic has been hit by 35 resignations in three years, as psychologists warn of “overdiagnoses” of gender dysphoria among children.

The whistleblowers said too many children were being put on puberty-blocking drugs when they should not have been given the diagnosis.

Former staff said they were unable to properly assess patients over fears they will be branded "transphobic".

35 resignations in 3 years! All because of nonsense PC gone mad culture.

This is child abuse

Imagine if we banned that

We all wish there was mate, but the truth is never easy.

And censoring people is never the answer. Education, debate, exposure always works far more than censorship.

It's no accident that the best nations humanity have ever thrown together have been the ones with the most freedoms and the worst the most censorious.
We just have to be very careful with the language we're using. There are people who genuinely wish to change their sex and are much happier once they have. There are others where the situation is not as clear but those people also need treating with care and respect. Sometimes the language used to discuss the topic appears to be critical of the whole idea of transgender because of the difficulties/edge cases in the second group. There is a spectrum of people here, let's try and avoid generalisations. (Even though I just have done one)
 

Aituk7

Striker
We just have to be very careful with the language we're using. There are people who genuinely wish to change their sex and are much happier once they have. There are others where the situation is not as clear but those people also need treating with care and respect. Sometimes the language used to discuss the topic appears to be critical of the whole idea of transgender because of the difficulties/edge cases in the second group. There is a spectrum of people here, let's try and avoid generalisations. (Even though I just have done one)
Why should we have to be careful with the language we are using?
 

Curlyteeth

Central Defender
Why should we have to be careful with the language we are using?
Maybe that's not the right phrase. But the language being used often comes across as being critical of transgender as a whole. If that's what people are intending then yes you're right, there's no need to be careful. But if people are actually just criticising certain aspects of how society handles the topic, and don't mean to be critical of all of it, then care needs taking to avoid looking like a bigot
 

Aituk7

Striker
Maybe that's not the right phrase. But the language being used often comes across as being critical of transgender as a whole. If that's what people are intending then yes you're right, there's no need to be careful. But if people are actually just criticising certain aspects of how society handles the topic, and don't mean to be critical of all of it, then care needs taking to avoid looking like a bigot
People need to be able to express themselves imo.

I don't think shutting down conversation, particularly on an issue we know so little about and yet are willing to experiment on children is a good thing.
 

Titus

Striker
We just have to be very careful with the language we're using. There are people who genuinely wish to change their sex and are much happier once they have. There are others where the situation is not as clear but those people also need treating with care and respect. Sometimes the language used to discuss the topic appears to be critical of the whole idea of transgender because of the difficulties/edge cases in the second group. There is a spectrum of people here, let's try and avoid generalisations. (Even though I just have done one)
I think we need to be realistic at the same time. I've no doubt that there will be a large chunk of people from that demographic taking black market hormones in order to become more 'feminine', who have no intention of transitioning and maybe are just having some sort of mental health crisis.
 

c032745y

Winger
There are hundreds of online groups who monitor all sorts then contact the police to report "offences" Some of them are very worthy, some aren't. Unfortunately the polis are duty bound to take action, the can't pick & choose.
 

Curlyteeth

Central Defender
People need to be able to express themselves imo.

I don't think shutting down conversation, particularly on an issue we know so little about and yet are willing to experiment on children is a good thing.
Never said we need to shut it down. I just want to be able to call someone out as a bigot if they're bigoted. They're free to say what they like, but if it's predudice hiding behind other language then they're still bigoted. And thankfully due to freedom of speech I have the right to call them out on it
 

Aituk7

Striker
Never said we need to shut it down. I just want to be able to call someone out as a bigot if they're bigoted. They're free to say what they like, but if it's predudice hiding behind other language then they're still bigoted. And thankfully due to freedom of speech I have the right to call them out on it
Well in that case I 100% agree.
 
Very good analogy. :lol::lol:

Mot on a privately owned message board. I wouldn't recomend insulting people in the street either. You may get a bloody nose and if not could be deemed harassment. However if you deemed black people inferior and had arguments why then I dont see why it shouldn't be up for discourse. People shouldn't be frightened of ideas even if they find those ideas repugnant.
So you think the idea that black people are inferior should be “up for discourse”?
 

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