A victory for freedom of speech.... and sanity



So where do we draw the line, can I start posting racist insults to black people and claim free speech?
No but you are allowed to say that a white person who thinks he's black, isn't really black, without the police taking you away for "thinking wrong".
 
It depends on how rude you are being, if you are being abusive or harrassing then no that isn't freedom of speech.

If you are citing your opinion on a public figure or group of individuals then that is freedom of speech.

it's to do with how targeted it is.

For example if I was stood outside your house shouting i think you're a cvnt.... that's harrassment, arrest me

If I wrote on my twitter page I think you're a cvnt, that's rude but it's freedom of speech

It depends though. Twitter will reach a wider audience so could be more damaging.
 
You can switch twitter off, you can block people, you don't have to be on there.

You can switch your own twitter off but doesn't switch off everyone elses. Let's say for example there was a tweet saying "x is a ****/nonce/thief/whatever".

Turning off your twitter doesn't solve that problem does it?

That tweet goes viral and your business is down the pan, kids getting picked on at school, folk looking at you funny when you go to the pub etc. etc.
 
You can switch your own twitter off but doesn't switch off everyone elses. Let's say for example there was a tweet saying "x is a ****/nonce/thief/whatever".

Turning off your twitter doesn't solve that problem does it?

That tweet goes viral and your business is down the pan, kids getting picked on at school, folk looking at you funny when you go to the pub etc. etc.
But that's an allegation, not subjective. It's libelous. Freedom of speech has never defended the right of people to blatantly lie about individuals.
I don’t see why the selfish need to be able to be freely racist trumps the need for society to be diverse and inclusive.
No one said it did, but neither of them trumps the need to be able to debate an issue including the one you just raised.

We can be both diverse and inclusive and allow people to debate issues.

In fact historically it was freedom of speech that encouraged diversity and inclusivity, I would posit it does exactly the same today.
 
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But that's an allegation, not subjective. It's libelous. Freedom of speech has never defended the right of people to blatantly lie about individuals.

No one said it did, but neither of them trumps the need to be able to debate an issue including the one you just raised.

We can be both diverse and inclusive and allow people to debate issues.

In fact historically it was freedom of speech that encouraged diversity and inclusivity, I would posit it does exactly the same today.

Point still stands though that twitter can be as damaging if not more so than shouting outside your house.

Online image means a lot to some people.

It's not as simple as saying 'just turn it off'.
 
Point still stands though that twitter can be as damaging if not more so than shouting outside your house.

Online image means a lot to some people.

It's not as simple as saying 'just turn it off'.
I'm failing to see the connection here.

If someone is saying thing that are untrue about you, that's libel and you can sue them for defamation.

The point of shouting outside your house was not really what they are shouting more having to put up with the irritation/intimidation of someone shouting
 
You're right it's not, but imagine hating every second of being in your body. So much so that you want to kill yourself. Then being told by sections of society that if you change your body, to try and be happy, that what you'll become is some kind of invalid none person.
Undergoing the sort of treatment necessary for transitioning is really tough and those who do it should be accepted as whichever sex they’ve transitioned to. For those who don’t want to do that and wish to retain parts of their original identity there are difficulties regarding the safeguarding of others. This is a real problem and not one that’s easily solved and not helped by shutting down the serious debates that need to be had,which some people, no doubt for reasons that seem good to them, are in danger of doing. All that does is cause resentment and increases the divisions. Opening up the safe spaces of some to propitiate others is unlikely to end well without some kind of regulation but I can’t see how that’s achieved without upsetting some people. People on both sides of the debate feel very strongly about it and both sides have to be heard. It would be really useful if we could do it politely and also more likely that we’ll find a reasonable solution if we don’t resort to insults.
 
Except that isn't the only variables that is going to influence incidences of self harm or attempted suicide. It's a fallacy.
It's not the only one, but it's certainly a contributing factor.
I think the science is starting to bare that out.

Also consider that there are an awful lot of gay kids being told now that they are transexual and require medication. This is dangerous stuff.

Look at the tavistock clinic for gods sake


"A transgender clinic has been hit by 35 resignations in three years, as psychologists warn of “overdiagnoses” of gender dysphoria among children.

The whistleblowers said too many children were being put on puberty-blocking drugs when they should not have been given the diagnosis.

Former staff said they were unable to properly assess patients over fears they will be branded "transphobic".

35 resignations in 3 years! All because of nonsense PC gone mad culture.

This is child abuse

Imagine if we banned that

We all wish there was mate, but the truth is never easy.

And censoring people is never the answer. Education, debate, exposure always works far more than censorship.

It's no accident that the best nations humanity have ever thrown together have been the ones with the most freedoms and the worst the most censorious.
and here come's Aituk with the extremes again.

"Look children being misdiagnosed!, we must be allowed to shout shit at transgender people."
 
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It's not the only one, but it's certainly a contributing factor.

and here come's Aituk with the extremes again.

"Look children being misdiagnosed!, we must be allowed to shout shit at transgender people."
:rolleyes: No one's saying anyone should be allowed to shout shit at anyone

Calm down for gods sake.
 
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No but you are allowed to say that a white person who thinks he's black, isn't really black, without the police taking you away for "thinking wrong".
But a man who transgendered to a woman is a woman, not a man. Gender is not the same as sex.

Sex is the biological facts you were born with.

Gender is what society places on top of that. e.g. Women wear skirts and makeup.

So it's not ok to call a man who has transgendered to a woman, a man. No more than it's ok to call an SAFC supporter a mag.

I also, do not understand the massive issue with it. If someone wants to identify as the male gender one day and the female gender the next, so what!!
Yeah, but people say it as if it's the overwhelming causal factor, which I simply don't believe.
I think the transgender community are telling us otherwise. https://www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_stats.pdf
:rolleyes: No one's saying anyone should be allowed to shout shit at anyone

Calm down for gods sake.
You've been on here proclaiming free speech all through the thread.

Shouting shit at people is free speech, or can we just have your view of free speech?

Please enlighten us to what is and isn't ok?
Undergoing the sort of treatment necessary for transitioning is really tough and those who do it should be accepted as whichever sex they’ve transitioned to. For those who don’t want to do that and wish to retain parts of their original identity there are difficulties regarding the safeguarding of others. This is a real problem and not one that’s easily solved and not helped by shutting down the serious debates that need to be had,which some people, no doubt for reasons that seem good to them, are in danger of doing. All that does is cause resentment and increases the divisions. Opening up the safe spaces of some to propitiate others is unlikely to end well without some kind of regulation but I can’t see how that’s achieved without upsetting some people. People on both sides of the debate feel very strongly about it and both sides have to be heard. It would be really useful if we could do it politely and also more likely that we’ll find a reasonable solution if we don’t resort to insults.
I'm more than happy with reasoned debate, the bloke who tweeted just tweeted offensive transphobic hate. There was no debate. He basically publically demeaned all transgender people and told them they would always be men. That's a deliberate misinterpretation of their gender that hides behind their physiological sex.

Why does he feel the need to do that, is he so threatened by trans people that he feels he must attack?
 
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But a man who transgendered to a woman is a woman, not a man. Gender is not the same as sex.

Sex is the biological facts you were born with.

Gender is what society places on top of that. e.g. Women wear skirts and makeup.

So it's not ok to call a man who has transgendered to a woman, a man. No more than it's ok to call an SAFC supporter a mag.

I also, do not understand the massive issue with it. If someone wants to identify as the male gender one day and the female gender the next, so what!!

I think the transgender community are telling us otherwise. https://www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_stats.pdf

You've been on here proclaiming free speech all through the thread.

Shouting shit at people is free speech, or can we just have your view of free speech?

Please enlighten us to what is and isn't ok?
No as I've said numerous times to you, I value the freedom of speech as set out in the american constitution under amendment 1.

I don't think you should be allowed to shout at people in the streets unprovoked... that would be a form of harassment.

Freedom of speech values your right to have an opinion and fairly express that opinion without fear of prosecution. Nothing more
 
No as I've said numerous times to you, I value the freedom of speech as set out in the american constitution under amendment 1.

I don't think you should be allowed to shout at people in the streets unprovoked... that would be a form of harassment.

Freedom of speech values your right to have an opinion and fairly express that opinion without fear of prosecution. Nothing more
And tweeted that trans people are not women is also harassment. Why is it ok on twitter but not in the street?
Sigh what? These are stats collected from that community. Are you just dismissing what they are telling us?
 
And tweeted that trans people are not women is also harassment. Why is it ok on twitter but not in the street?
Why is that harassment?

Who are you harassing there?

It's up to other people if they go to your twitter account and view what you have posted.
 

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