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4th Ashes Test - Old Trafford

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Can't see wholesale changes at all, in fact I think they'll swap Roy and Denly's place in the batting order but if I was a selector I'd still be minded to make changes. For all it was a memorable victory, it was based on the brilliance of one man (Batting wise) and has probably papered over a few cracks. I'd go with the following:

Burns
Sibley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Malan
Bairstow
Archer
Broad
Anderson
Leach
The Breen Machine said:
Can't see wholesale changes at all, in fact I think they'll swap Roy and Denly's place in the batting order but if I was a selector I'd still be minded to make changes. For all it was a memorable victory, it was based on the brilliance of one man (Batting wise) and has probably papered over a few cracks. I'd go with the following:

Burns
Sibley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Malan
Bairstow
Archer
Broad
Anderson
Leach
Click to expand...

Of course I've picked Malan twice :oops: - I meant Pope at 6.
 
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The Breen Machine said:
Can't see wholesale changes at all, in fact I think they'll swap Roy and Denly's place in the batting order but if I was a selector I'd still be minded to make changes. For all it was a memorable victory, it was based on the brilliance of one man (Batting wise) and has probably papered over a few cracks. I'd go with the following:

Burns
Sibley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Malan
Bairstow
Archer
Broad
Anderson
Leach
Click to expand...
Malan twins :cool:
 
The Breen Machine said:
Can't see wholesale changes at all, in fact I think they'll swap Roy and Denly's place in the batting order but if I was a selector I'd still be minded to make changes. For all it was a memorable victory, it was based on the brilliance of one man (Batting wise) and has probably papered over a few cracks. I'd go with the following:

Burns
Sibley
Root
Malan
Stokes
Malan
Bairstow
Archer
Broad
Anderson
Leach
Click to expand...

Had we lost the last test I think there would have been wholesale changes and after the Ashes has finished win, lose or draw there will be significant changes with the likes of Sibley/Crawley/Pope/ Foakes getting into the team. I don’t expect too many changes now simply because of it being too big an ask to bring players in against a world class bowling attack when they have not been playing 4 day cricket. Pope is a possibility after his double hundred last week but I don’t see much beyond that.
 
rentaghost said:
Had we lost the last test I think there would have been wholesale changes and after the Ashes has finished win, lose or draw there will be significant changes with the likes of Sibley/Crawley/Pope/ Foakes getting into the team. I don’t expect too many changes now simply because of it being too big an ask to bring players in against a world class bowling attack when they have not been playing 4 day cricket. Pope is a possibility after his double hundred last week but I don’t see much beyond that.
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I don't argue that changes will be kept to a minimum if any take place at all. For me Roy and Buttler look shot and despite his 50, Denly will never be a test class batsman. It would be risky to make 3 changes to the batting line-up at this point but in my ideal world I'd go with the above - not a chance it will actually happen though.
 
The Breen Machine said:
I don't argue that changes will be kept to a minimum if any take place at all. For me Roy and Buttler look shot and despite his 50, Denly will never be a test class batsman. It would be risky to make 3 changes to the batting line-up at this point but in my ideal world I'd go with the above - not a chance it will actually happen though.
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Treating the next two tests in isolation would you think the best opportunity of getting some test match runs against Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon would be a player that has just scored a good 50 against that attack or a player that has not had a 4 day knock against anyone for two months and has never played in a pressure situation against that type of quality before? I think anyone’s ideal world for next Thursday should be Denly in the team and then a big rethink about our batting afterwards.
 
rentaghost said:
Treating the next two tests in isolation would you think the best opportunity of getting some test match runs against Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon would be a player that has just scored a good 50 against that attack or a player that has not had a 4 day knock against anyone for two months and has never played in a pressure situation against that type of quality before? I think anyone’s ideal world for next Thursday should be Denly in the team and then a big rethink about our batting afterwards.
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When you look at it that way, the ECB have really fucked this up again haven't they - scheduling the T20 competition in the middle of the Ashes series.
 
Bowlers will have to be on the money as we still look like we will struggle with the bat. Can't be relying on such heroics again.
 
The Breen Machine said:
When you look at it that way, the ECB have really fucked this up again haven't they - scheduling the T20 competition in the middle of the Ashes series.
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I agree. Sibley for example I haven’t really seen before but hes having a great season and Alec Stewart rates him highly. Suddenly he stops playing for 5 weeks, has one opportunity to get some runs under his belt and gets a duck!
 
chunkylover53 said:
Just to highlight that Leach averages 4 for Somerset this year

He did very well yesterday but he still only faced 17 balls.

Broad got 29 at Edgbaston

Burns
Sibley
Denly
Root
Pope
Stokes
Foakes w
Archer
Broad
Anderson
Leach

Or move Denly to open and keep Bairstow in, I’m indifferent
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I really find it hard to understand your thinking that you think Sibley, Burns, Denly and Pope are better batsman than Bairstow.
 
Voice of fair play said:
I really find it hard to understand your thinking that you think Sibley, Burns, Denly and Pope are better batsman than Bairstow.
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I’ve been through this

Bairstow is a 7 at best these days.

His test record in recent years
2017 - 34
2018 - 30
2019 - 20

His form is getting worse. Regardless of whether you think those above are better or worse, he isn’t justifying a place in the side
 
Voice of fair play said:
I really find it hard to understand your thinking that you think Sibley, Burns, Denly and Pope are better batsman than Bairstow.
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Bairstow keeps his place but I don’t agree with your logic. At the time new players come into the test team they don’t have the experience at that level and might never make it. However if it is felt a once quality player is deteriorating and a promising young player is knocking on the door then a change has to be made at some stage.
 
rentaghost said:
Bairstow keeps his place but I don’t agree with your logic. At the time new players come into the test team they don’t have the experience at that level and might never make it. However if it is felt a once quality player is deteriorating and a promising young player is knocking on the door then a change has to be made at some stage.
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Well yes, can see that point, and of course there is times when quality players with potential are waiting in the wings that established players should be dropped to make way for them.

However in the case of Bairstow don’t think it’s anywhere close to that scenario, he is the third best test batsman in the country imo.
chunkylover53 said:
I’ve been through this

Bairstow is a 7 at best these days.

His test record in recent years
2017 - 34
2018 - 30
2019 - 20

His form is getting worse. Regardless of whether you think those above are better or worse, he isn’t justifying a place in the side
Click to expand...

In any sport your make a judgement call of the personal available and Bairstow is the third best batsman in the country.

Imo if he was playing county cricket his runs would be much more than his peers.
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Well yes, can see that point, and of course there is times when quality players with potential are waiting in the wings that established players should be dropped to make way for them.

However in the case of Bairstow don’t think it’s anywhere close to that scenario, he is the third best test batsman in the country imo.


In any sport your make a judgement call of the personal available and Bairstow is the third best batsman in the country.

Imo if he was playing county cricket his runs would be much more than his peers.
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He may score more county runs, but his test record at the moment is poor. That’s just a fact.
 
chunkylover53 said:
I’ve been through this

Bairstow is a 7 at best these days.

His test record in recent years
2017 - 34
2018 - 30
2019 - 20

His form is getting worse. Regardless of whether you think those above are better or worse, he isn’t justifying a place in the side
Click to expand...

This. I think some people are clouded by Bairstow's fantastic ODI form of late. His test record has been evidently deteriorating for some time. He has looked to be in better nick in the last 2 tests but if he struggles again in the final 2 then his place should be under severe threat IMO.
 
chunkylover53 said:
He may score more county runs, but his test record at the moment is poor. That’s just a fact.
Click to expand...

All a matter of opinion but he is a lot better bet than anyone else.

In any sport you don’t just drop people on record alone, you drop them if you think someone would do better and currently I don’t think that is the case at all, if batsman are dropped there is others before him imo.
 
Voice of fair play said:
All a matter of opinion but he is a lot better bet than anyone else.

In any sport you don’t just drop people on record alone, you drop them if you think someone would do better and currently I don’t think that is the case at all, if batsman are dropped there is others before him imo.
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You don’t think someone else could average more than 20?

Ollie Pope has a first class record where he averages nearly 60. Granted, he may not be able to transfer it to tests. But we won’t know if we don’t give the opportunity. He may be a Hick. Or he may be a Tescothick.

And there is massive upside vs Bairstow at the moment.

Bairstow doesn’t deserve a place in the team on form in the last 2 years. That’s just a fact sorry.
 
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