4th Ashes Test - Old Trafford

[rentaghost]

Totally different situation.

I did say it was not as severe but they were both using external factors to alter the condition of the ball. They were both cheating. Atherton got a slap on the wrist, their players got a year ban and national humiliation. Do you not think what Atherton did was cheating? If not, why not? Just curious.

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Our warm up games when we tour are always slated to be fair, usually 2/3 day games against poor opposition. They’ve turned up playing 4 day games against county sides.

But my point is that we played 1 four day match against Ireland where we rested a fair few players. We’ve had next to no red ball cricket, and it’s shown.

see my earlier post. they were very well drilled with sheffield steel games, english county games, warm up games. just relentless prep and according to someone who quoted my post, they changed to the Duke ball half way through the Sheffield Shield.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Probably doesn't answer everything for you but;

Just looking at the Sheffield Shield last round of games

Marcus Harris played for Victoria. Peter Siddle played for Victoria, also 8 county games in england. Labuschagne played for Queensland and
has played a lot of county cricket in England. Bancroft played for Western Australia as well as Durham. Travis Head was playing for Southern Redbacks.
Paine and Wade were playing for Tasmania.

You then look at the Australia A side who were playing here getting match practice albeit at 50 over level, they have been non stop at all levels,
none of this resting them/withdrawing them that happens with our lot.

Australia played Derbyshire in a mid Ashes game, looking at who played. Harris, Khawaja, Marsh, Smith, Wade, Bancroft, Labuschagne. Siddle and Starc also featured, with the ball. It's all good practice, they seem very well drilled in all formats. I believe they also played Worcester in a red ball warm up game?

I honestly couldn't tell you the last time Roy, Butler, Root and Stokes played county red ball cricket or
practice match red ball cricket. Has Bairstow played much red ball cricket? How many red ball games has Archer played this year?

Edit - Just done a quick google. Root has played 2 games in the county championship. Denly has played 6.
Burns 8. Broad 8. Leach 8.

Harris played 10 games, 18 innings in the Sheffield Shield. Bancroft 4 games, 8 innings. Wade played 10 games, 20 innings. Head played 7 games, 13 innings. Labuschagne 9 games, 17 innings. Paine 6 games, 10 innings. Siddle 7 games, 11 innings. Lyon played 3 games.

So it that long post you have have not mentioned Cummins and Hazelwood and Smith had one practice game!

Yet apparently it was their red ball practice that made all the difference, complete bollocks.

The ones who had the most red ball practice Siddle,Paine, Harris, Bancroft, Wade were their worst performers!

And the other one Labuschange there were soo impressed with his red ball form they didn’t even pick him.

It’s absolutle nonsense the red ball cricket outside the test matches made the difference, they 3 best players by a mile hardly played any!

see my earlier post. they were very well drilled with sheffield steel games, english county games, warm up games. just relentless prep and according to someone who quoted my post, they changed to the Duke ball half way through the Sheffield Shield.

How many did Smith, Cummins and Hazelwood play?

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

So it that long post you have have not mentioned Cummins and Hazelwood and Smith had one practice game!

Yet apparently it was their red ball practice that made all the difference, complete bollocks.

The ones who had the most red ball practice Siddle,Paine, Harris, Bancroft, Wade were their worst performers!

And the other one Labuschange there were soo impressed with his red ball form they didn’t even pick him.

It’s absolutle nonsense the red ball cricket outside the test matches made the difference, they 3 best players by a mile hardly played any!



How many did Smith, Cummins and Hazelwood play?

Wade who hit a century and is 7th highest run scorer in the series?

 

[TopCat]

I did say it was not as severe but they were both using external factors to alter the condition of the ball. They were both cheating. Atherton got a slap on the wrist, their players got a year ban and national humiliation. Do you not think what Atherton did was cheating? If not, why not? Just curious.

Rubbing soil on the ball does nothing other than dry it out and improve grip. It really is no different to a spinner rubbing their hands in the dirt.
It didn't look good of course and Atherton handled it badly (as did Illingworth) but applying sandpaper to the surface of the ball makes a permanent change to it and influences how it behaves in the air

Atherton's punishment was for not being honest with the Match Referee not for the actual act of "polishing the ball with dirt"

 

[Deleted member 36123]

That’s exactly what all touring sides do whatever country you in!

If we were in Australia we would have warm up games in between, so it’s a moot point.


Wish people would stop making it sound like some grand plan of theirs and a mistake by us for their players to get county practice.

They was 2!

Bancroft who was useless.

And Labuschange who was not even picked and was only in the side because Smith got knock on the head.

This argument that they planned by getting county practice is complete bollocks.
Or and there was Siddle who played one game.

Fair enough marra. I will be the first to stop.

I have decided that I am not as upset about not winning the Ashes, as I was elated about winning the World Cup. I think both outcomes were deserved. I am very interested to see what happens for the final test.

 

[viccarlton]

Sorry to butt in lads, but I think the simple fact of the matter is that the Aussies have better batsmen and better bowlers than us, in this scenario the outcome is inevitable.
That’s all folks.

 

[Deleted member 36123]

I want to say we've got an excellent replacement in Archer, but think he's a bit of a show pony tbh.

I think he is the real deal, he just needed to be able to ease in and learn from Broad and Anderson, instead of being hyped up and consequently under pressure to deliver. Too much responsibility too early but he bounced back in the second innings of this match very well. Looks an 11 with the bat mind.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Wade who hit a century and is 7th highest run scorer in the series?

Not the 7th highest run scorer!

Yeah it was Wade who won the Ashes for them

Their best players Smith and Cummins played white ball cricket before the Ashes, where most of their worst players played red ball cricket before the Ashes

Yet it was their red ball cricket practice that did it for them?

Total load of bollocks!

 

[GordonMuchallNo1Fan]

Not the 7th highest run scorer!

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7th highest run scorer this series so far

Sorry to butt in lads, but I think the simple fact of the matter is that the Aussies have better batsmen and better bowlers than us, in this scenario the outcome is inevitable.
That’s all folks.

They're better in every department. Consistent, well drilled, well prepared, wiser captaincy, better bowlers, better batsman. Just all round better

 

[Sharpshooter]

Sorry to butt in lads, but I think the simple fact of the matter is that the Aussies have better batsmen and better bowlers than us, in this scenario the outcome is inevitable.
That’s all folks.

Better bowlers - that's England without Anderson though. Don't underestimate how much of a massive loss that was, the bloke averages 20 here at home in the past 5 years. England IMO would have won that first test probably had he never gotten injured.

Better batsman? One phenomenal batsman and the rest are around the same as England. Warner has the potential to be world class but can't do it in England.

 

[Thurston]

I want to say we've got an excellent replacement in Archer, but think he's a bit of a show pony tbh.

I’m inclined to reserve judgement, but as it stands there’s a lot riding on his development.

Is it just me, or was there an element of the Australians trying to hold off their declaration just long enough in the first innings to try and have him end on figures of 0-100, to put him firmly in his place? Smith was naturally quite contemptuous in the second. Interesting times ahead.

 

[Voice of fair play]

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7th highest run scorer this series so far


They're better in every department. Consistent, well drilled, well prepared, wiser captaincy, better bowlers, better batsman. Just all round better

Not to mention our best player in the series by a mile, came straight out of white ball cricket.

So that’s the 3 best players in the series Smith, Stokes and Cummins straight out of white ball cricket and no red ball practice

And the other best player Broad hardly having any red ball practice!

But them four players never really influenced the Ashes, it was Matthew Wade with all his red ball practice!

 

[hudson88]

Not the 7th highest run scorer!

Yeah it was Wade who won the Ashes for them

Their best players Smith and Cummins played white ball cricket before the Ashes, where most of their worst players played red ball cricket before the Ashes

Yet it was their red ball cricket practice that did it for them?

Total load of bollocks!

You’re talking about the number 1 test batsman and number 1 test bowler though.

Our players are undercooked in red ball cricket. I’m not saying that’s what has lost us the Ashes, but red ball cricket is completely overlooked. Yes it’s been a big boost to white ball cricket and we won the World Cup which was superb, but when you see some of the cricket played by the likes of Roy, Buttler and Bairstow, who are all superb, world class white ball players, there’s too much of an overlap between the different formats. Some of the dismissals this series have been poor, as have certain selections, people seem to think white ball cricket can be transferred to the red ball. It can’t.

The players need to play more red ball cricket. However next year the ECB are introducing yet another format, which will lower the opportunity of our players to play red ball cricket even further. Mentalities need to change, but as someone mentioned above - players can either practice and polish their red ball skills, or play white ball cricket where the money is.

So no, it isn’t simply down to game time in the longer format. But as has been mentioned when was the last time Stokes was made available for Durham in the championship? Bairstow for Yorkshire? My opinion is red ball is being neglected.

 

[viccarlton]

Better bowlers - that's England without Anderson though. Don't underestimate how much of a massive loss that was, the bloke averages 20 here at home in the past 5 years. England IMO would have won that first test probably had he never gotten injured.

Better batsman? One phenomenal batsman and the rest are around the same as England. Warner has the potential to be world class but can't do it in England.

Indeed Anderson at his best would have been an asset, and yes Smith has been their outstanding batsman, unfortunately Smith being outstanding and our bowlers being in the main ineffective has been our downfall, plus the fact that we’re to a man terrified of Lyon.

 

[Thurston]

Sorry to butt in lads, but I think the simple fact of the matter is that the Aussies have better batsmen and better bowlers than us, in this scenario the outcome is inevitable.
That’s all folks.

I really have to go through the figures for the series to back this up, but Smith and Labuschagne aside, the batsmen have been every bit as inconsistent as England - and there’s been some real shockers. Their openers are incapable of seeing off the new Duke ball, Khawaja looked a waste of a cap and a jumper etc. So someone who is averaging around 150 in the series makes a big difference.

 

[hudson88]

Not to mention our best player in the series by a mile, came straight out of white ball cricket.

So that’s the 3 best players in the series Smith, Stokes and Cummins straight out of white ball cricket and no red ball practice

And the other best player Broad hardly having any red ball practice!

But them four players never really influenced the Ashes, it was Matthew Wade with all his red ball practice!

Broad played the full 1st half of the season for Nottinghamshire

 

[Voice of fair play]

Fair enough marra. I will be the first to stop.

I have decided that I am not as upset about not winning the Ashes, as I was elated about winning the World Cup. I think both outcomes were deserved. I am very interested to see what happens for the final test.

I think we just have to accept we were beaten by better players playing better cricket.

 

[TravellingMackem]

at the moment I don’t think we have anyone who could replace jimmy to his level.

Nor does any nation. Same way that Australia have no one to replace smith if he got hit by a bus tomorrow, India Kohli or New Zealand Williamson. Just unfortunate for us Jimmy’s period is coming to and end

 

[viccarlton]

I really have to go through the figures for the series to back this up, but Smith and Labuschagne aside, the batsmen have been every bit as inconsistent as England - and there’s been some real shockers. Their openers are incapable of seeing off the new Duke ball, Khawaja looked a waste of a cap and a jumper etc. So someone who is averaging around 150 in the series makes a big difference.

Correct, see above.