4 million children and 1.9 million pensioners living in poverty in UK

[redgauntlet]

I didnt say they were but I was implying that some people you could serve the moon up on a plate and they would still be skint.

its the nature of some people.

its extremely hard for loads of people but there is a big difference between abject or absolute poverty over relative poverty and in this it measure against relative poverty.

probably growing up I and most of the people around me would these days fall into relative poverty

JRF’s definition of poverty is:

‘When a person’s resources (mainly their material resources) are not sufficient to meet their minimum needs (including social participation).’

so from that definition what is Social participation. being able to go down the pub, join a gym, smoking, having pay TV

I agree, but we are dealing with real poverty here. You let yourself down by only talking about those who spend their money on other things, not neccessities. Truth is the rich have become extremely rich by being extremely greedy. Letting the money they aught to be paying in taxes flow abroad, where it does nobody any good. This present government have been an absolute bloody disgrace. Theresa May a Christian, not the sort of Christianity thst Inwas taught. Even the Queen is in on the act now, not that it will be anything new.

 

[Epping]

The whole social participation thing is an important issue, people slating folk for having a big telly and sky etc yet little food on the fridge.

These people will also be the ones who aren’t working, often through no fault of their own, they’re living in a society that had been created around ownership of shite. If you’re already in an awful situation, feeling like you’re dropping out of the arse of the world then maybe having a big telly adds to ones sense of worth. Is that such a bad thing?

Also this nonsense about blaming people for not being able to budget, that’s a part of the problem but you try living on what is it, £50-70 quid a week for a prolonged period of time, no treats, no prospect of the situation improving....that’s what you’d get for budgeting. That’s not a life, it’s barely an existence. No the wonder people then go and get into hoc for a treat.

Not having a go at you personally here mind Epps but a lot of people need to get off their high horse and look at where the problem lies, it’s not the folk with the big telly, it’s the companies and governments that have created this situation.

I'm not denying you have to look at the bigger picture and to be fair I dont begrudge people having stuff and being able to go for a pint however there has to be an element of self repsonsibility from all parties.

you can get the goverment to through addtional money and resources at it but both parties have to keep their end of an aggrrement to an extent

 

[sidneyeric]

People believe it because they want to believe it, some (a tiny minority) take the piss so lets punish them all, remember IDS telling people "when you go to work early in the morning in the freezing cold look up at your neighbours window, look at him lying in bed while you go to work to pay for his benefits" so he can cut the benefits to the most vulnerable people in society, such a shame some people can't see what's right in front of their noses because they don't want to.

 

[Epping]

The poor tend to also pay more for goods (Bright House) and for power (advance key meters).

This perpetuates poverty.

I wouldnt say the poor fro brighthouse... more the stupid...

I know many a person who will happily accept and use 2nd hand goods but there are many people out there who will turn their noses up at somethign not being new

 

[stephen cartwright]

It in true SMB style, it boils my piss

I'm very fortunate but could easily be in the poverty band and have been in the past.

I remember a previous Tory government back in the day, sending my dad a 10p cheque to feed his family over a Christmas period.

Still got it framed by the way.

Everytime the Tories are in power, you get these same divisions and hatreds spread.

Now I'm not saying labour are perfect but during the Blair years, was there really this much bitterness, selfish behaviour and down right divisions of society, that there is so clearly around these days.

all encouraged by non stop propaganda through the press, internet and tv, to denigrate others, to the profit of the few?

Burning injustices Theresa may stated would be solved, well let's see some of it.

Just as Thatcher said where there is discord, may we bring solace etc etc etc

Let's be seeing it and making all food banks be closed and any poverty report be a thing of the past.

This country has never been richer.

 

[Sir Lancelot]

Indeed. But the Joseph Rowntree Foundation are defining it as poverty...which is good enough to me. Yes poverty is different in UK than it is in Africa....but the fact remains that British families and pensioners are at the point where they cannot afford to eat.

Pensioners have a guaranteed income, winter fuel allowance, concessionary travel, access to housing and council tax benefits etc. There is no reason why they should be considered as living in poverty.

You need to realise that many old people don’t claim the benefits that they are entitled, either because they don’t know what is available, or they are too proud to apply for the benefit and so they scrimp each week trying to keep up on their work pension.

Others are scared that they won’t have sufficient money to pay for being buried and so they have thousands of pounds stashed away to pay to burry them. An example of this was on BBC news at lunch time where a pensioner claimed that she spent her days sitting on buses rather than heat her home. She also mentioned having to keep money to pay for her burial.

If we really want to help the poor pensioners, then we need to help them to access every benefit that they are entitled to. We need to ensure that they are on the best fuel deals and that they are not paying exorbitant rates for Sky and broadband.

Brexit, the dream of the greedy, not for the needy who will suffer most. The greedy scroungers who don’t care thst others can ill afford to pay for their dream, dream of what? They don’t even know but they will take it whatever the cost , why? Cos. Back to poverty, I learned at an early age what it was like.

That’s a bit stupid like. It was the poorest that voted for Brexit simply because they have nothing anyway.

 

[Cowvahlo]

I'm not denying you have to look at the bigger picture and to be fair I dont begrudge people having stuff and being able to go for a pint however there has to be an element of self repsonsibility from all parties.

you can get the goverment to through addtional money and resources at it but both parties have to keep their end of an aggrrement to an extent

Of course, you’re right, there’s got to be self responsibility as well but there’s also got to be an understanding of how hard it must be to live life on an absolute pittance when all around you are showing off their shiny new goods.

Could you do it? I know I’d find it extremely hard as I tend to fall into the ‘spend’ category rather than budget and save category. Can you imagine not being able to go to the supermarket and being able to fill your trolley with food and chuck in a little treat? Or to sit there doing absolutely nothing all day because you can’t afford to. It’s awful man, but what’s worse is that this country has allowed it to happen.

 

[Deleted member 40035]

Well done to everyone who votes tory, this is your fault and you have blood on your hands.

 

[Lonz]

It in true SMB style, it boils my piss

I'm very fortunate but could easily be in the poverty band and have been in the past.

I remember a previous Tory government back in the day, sending my dad a 10p cheque to feed his family over a Christmas period.

Still got it framed by the way.

Everytime the Tories are in power, you get these same divisions and hatreds spread.

Now I'm not saying labour are perfect but during the Blair years, was there really this much bitterness, selfish behaviour and down right divisions of society, that there is so clearly around these days.

all encouraged by non stop propaganda through the press, internet and tv, to denigrate others, to the profit of the few?

Burning injustices Theresa may stated would be solved, well let's see some of it.

Just as Thatcher said where there is discord, may we bring solace etc etc etc

Let's be seeing it and making all food banks be closed and any poverty report be a thing of the past.

This country has never been richer.

The country has never been richer but there will always be poor people in a capitalist society. It's all relative. It's worth pointing out that people have never had it so good, on average.

Labour didn't exactly break their back for the good of the region. The North East gets shafted by the Barnett formula (introduced by former Labour Secretary I might add). Still, neither party needs to do anything for us because both know that the majority will vote Labour anyway and that doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon. But that's another debate for another thread.

 

[Cowvahlo]

Pensioners have a guaranteed income, winter fuel allowance, concessionary travel, access to housing and council tax benefits etc. There is no reason why they should be considered as living in poverty.

You need to realise that many old people don’t claim the benefits that they are entitled, either because they don’t know what is available, or they are too proud to apply for the benefit and so they scrimp each week trying to keep up on their work pension.

Others are scared that they won’t have sufficient money to pay for being buried and so they have thousands of pounds stashed away to pay to burry them. An example of this was on BBC news at lunch time where a pensioner claimed that she spent her days sitting on buses rather than heat her home. She also mentioned having to keep money to pay for her burial.

If we really want to help the poor pensioners, then we need to help them to access every benefit that they are entitled to. We need to ensure that they are on the best fuel deals and that they are not paying exorbitant rates for Sky and broadband.



That’s a bit stupid like. It was the poorest that voted for Brexit simply because they have nothing anyway.

Yes it was the poorest who voted for Brexit, not because they have nothing but because unfortunately the thickest also appear, unfairly, in the same bracket as the poorest. The thickest thought we were going to be invaded by dark skinned devils from abroad who were going to crush our great way of life.

 

[Epping]

Of course, you’re right, there’s got to be self responsibility as well but there’s also got to be an understanding of how hard it must be to live life on an absolute pittance when all around you are showing off their shiny new goods.

Could you do it? I know I’d find it extremely hard as I tend to fall into the ‘spend’ category rather than budget and save category. Can you imagine not being able to go to the supermarket and being able to fill your trolley with food and chuck in a little treat? Or to sit there doing absolutely nothing all day because you can’t afford to. It’s awful man, but what’s worse is that this country has allowed it to happen.

I have a basic bt tv subscription... I run 4 mobiles for a grand total of £36.

I dont need to but I do it because I'd rather have extra money in my bin and savings.

I rarely buy takeaways etc.

I can imagine its very tough and disheartening but I've always lived the life and its how I was brought up that if I cant afford it dont buy it. my first flat I lived on an airbed for 6 months cos I didnt have money for a bed. it also doubled up as my sofa. a mate gave me a table and chairs and I borrowed a portable tv

Yes it was the poorest who voted for Brexit, not because they have nothing but because unfortunately the thickest also appear, unfairly, in the same bracket as the poorest. The thickest thought we were going to be invaded by dark skinned devils from abroad who were going to crush our great way of life.

or if you are at the bottom its worth taking a gamble as it cant get any worse

 

[EDGE]

I wouldnt say the poor fro brighthouse... more the stupid...

I know many a person who will happily accept and use 2nd hand goods but there are many people out there who will turn their noses up at somethign not being new

I agree with that but unfortunately a lot of people just cannot grasp the concept of APR.

 

[Frijj]

its how you define poverty isnt it..

could be wrong here, but i think @Frijj produced some data once that showed that more low income people smoke than high or middle income people. that sounds like bad prioritisation to me. secondly, @Epping is right, people going out and over leveraging themselves through catalogues and HPA's is quite common and frankly ridiculous.

some things aren't as simple as chucking money at it. this is one of them things. a lot of people are genuinely living in poverty. people who work and can't make ends meet; that is the number 1 issue. people who go out to work and still can't feed their family.

Smoking is undoubtedly higher in poorer populations

As are most health damaging behaviours tbf

 

[Cowvahlo]

I have a basic bt tv subscription... I run 4 mobiles for a grand total of £36.

I dont need to but I do it because I'd rather have extra money in my bin and savings.

I rarely buy takeaways etc.

I can imagine its very tough and disheartening but I've always lived the life and its how I was brought up that if I cant afford it dont buy it. my first flat I lived on an airbed for 6 months cos I didnt have money for a bed. it also doubled up as my sofa. a mate gave me a table and chairs and I borrowed a portable tv

And fair play to you for doing that. I have a £1k telly, pay £160 a month for two mobile phones, pay full sky subscription and spend fairly freely....I was brought up with hand me down clothes, being sent to the neighbours to borrow a cup of custard powder so my Mam could make us some tea. I’ve made sure I’m not going to be in that situation for my kids and have no problem spending.

 

[Epping]

And fair play to you for doing that. I have a £1k telly, pay £160 a month for two mobile phones, pay full sky subscription and spend fairly freely....I was brought up with hand me down clothes, being sent to the neighbours to borrow a cup of custard powder so my Mam could make us some tea. I’ve made sure I’m not going to be in that situation for my kids and have no problem spending.

I'd rather spend it on holidays and memories than keeping up with the jones's

 

[Cowvahlo]

I'd rather spend it on holidays and memories than keeping up with the jones's

Surely it’s the same thing, the memory my kids will hopefully have is of seeing me graft relatively hard and being able to afford luxuries in life to give them a comfortable lifestyle....but that’s getting away from the poverty issue, on this one it’s eaxh to their own. I’d rather not be the richest man in the graveyard.

 

[monkeytassle]

And fair play to you for doing that. I have a £1k telly, pay £160 a month for two mobile phones, pay full sky subscription and spend fairly freely....I was brought up with hand me down clothes, being sent to the neighbours to borrow a cup of custard powder so my Mam could make us some tea. I’ve made sure I’m not going to be in that situation for my kids and have no problem spending.

Which of those would you give up to help alleviate poverty.

 

[nyron4england]

And fair play to you for doing that. I have a £1k telly, pay £160 a month for two mobile phones, pay full sky subscription and spend fairly freely....I was brought up with hand me down clothes, being sent to the neighbours to borrow a cup of custard powder so my Mam could make us some tea. I’ve made sure I’m not going to be in that situation for my kids and have no problem spending.

160 quid on two mobile phones? fuck me sideways, do they wank you off when you use them to watch porn on them?

 

[EDGE]

And fair play to you for doing that. I have a £1k telly, pay £160 a month for two mobile phones, pay full sky subscription and spend fairly freely....I was brought up with hand me down clothes, being sent to the neighbours to borrow a cup of custard powder so my Mam could make us some tea. I’ve made sure I’m not going to be in that situation for my kids and have no problem spending.

That's nowt, I used to get up 3 hours before going to bed......You were lucky.

 

[Epping]

Surely it’s the same thing, the memory my kids will hopefully have is of seeing me graft relatively hard and being able to afford luxuries in life to give them a comfortable lifestyle....but that’s getting away from the poverty issue, on this one it’s eaxh to their own. I’d rather not be the richest man in the graveyard.

no because they dont go short but they also get taught the value of money. if they want the latest phone they are at the age they can get a job to heklp pay for it.. they have macbooks, iphones (6s) etc but they realise that it all has a cost to me.