‘Irrelevant and toxic’ Labour losing out to Ukip, inquiry finds

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kossoff

Striker
Okay if you want to think that on the back of a survey done by an energy company that people in Eastern Europe have a better quality of life than in the UK by all means mate, get a job out there

I think we both know that Eastern Europe is considerably less advanced than Western Europe but if you want to think differently, maybe USwitch were right all along!
I do intend to move abroad to work to some countries where I will be less well paid than I am here. That's why immigration isn't one of the hot issues for me.
 
With the vote being so close, it won't be the end of the matter. Not by a long way. Party politics could look very different in a few months time.
It will. The political classes all love the EU.

I think the EU will implode before we get another vote.

I do intend to move abroad to work to some countries where I will be less well paid than I am here. That's why immigration isn't one of the hot issues for me.
I'm alright Jack.
 
B

Bagpuss

Guest
Arseholes like you will see the labour party out if office for a long time. Never mind your a teacher so you won't be suffering
Do shut up you muppet. We have suffered more under the tories than most with huge cuts in pay and conditions and massive increases in workload. If the Labour party are just Tory light then it makes no difference to any of us if they are out of office for a long time or not as it will be more of the same if they are elected, thats kind of the point, we need real choice.

By "giving in to xenophobes" do you mean acknowledging the legitimate concerns people have about mass immigration?
Not when many of the people airing those fears are basing them on racist nonsense and little actual foundation. The kind of people that used to tell us that asylum seekers were being given priority for council housing, driving lessons, mobile phones and more benefits than pensioners. Just utter nonsense.
 

Brexit

Winger
Not when many of the people airing those fears are basing them on racist nonsense and little actual foundation. The kind of people that used to tell us that asylum seekers were being given priority for council housing, driving lessons, mobile phones and more benefits than pensioners. Just utter nonsense.
Complete and utter paranoid rubbish.
 

John Steed

Striker
Why is it only unskilled eastern Europeans you are worried about? What about unskilled French people or Spanish people?

Here's something you should probably look at, the unskilled British people here in our own country, where there are large amounts of people who just want to do fuck all all day/not get a job, watch Jeremy Kyle and live an easy life. Fuck those people. Every immigrant I have known within this country, especially from eastern Europe, has held a job down and been hard working at that.

I'd much rather kick out the lazy Brits that contribute nothing towards this country than stop people that are prepared to work from outside coming in.
Fucking hell talk about sweeping generalisations.
He's called Kossoff and wants to boot out indigenous Brits to replace them with east Europeans. Hmm.:lol:
 
Fucking hell talk about sweeping generalisations.
He's called Kossoff and wants to boot out indigenous Brits to replace them with east Europeans. Hmm.:lol:
"every immigrant I have known within this country especially from eastern europe has held a job dow and been hard working at that"

this guardian article claims there are ~14,000 poles on JSA in the uk

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

there are 2 britons on JSA in poland

2.



for the developed western countries it's pretty even, though we vastly over-recieve benefits from Ireland and Germany

similar numbers of ours on benefits in france, spain, italy, sweden, belgium, finland, austria, denmark, then when you get to eastern european countries...whooosh! it flies up
 

kossoff

Striker
"every immigrant I have known within this country especially from eastern europe has held a job dow and been hard working at that"

this guardian article claims there are ~14,000 poles on JSA in the uk

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

there are 2 britons on JSA in poland

2.



for the developed western countries it's pretty even, though we vastly over-recieve benefits from Ireland and Germany

similar numbers of ours on benefits in france, spain, italy, sweden, belgium, finland, austria, denmark, then when you get to eastern european countries...whooosh! it flies up
I don't associate with scratters, that's why the only Polish people I know hold down jobs. Twat.

Why aren't you concerned with the Germans and Irish in particular who come over here and take our benefits?
 




Labour’s “metropolitan squeamishness” meant it struggled to relate to English working-class voters in the run-up to last year’s general election, and its campaigners were like middle-class Ryanair passengers “having to stomach a couple of hours’ flight with people they shared little in common with”, former candidates argue in a new book.

In the forthcoming work, edited by the backbencher Tristram Hunt, five failed and five successful candidates who stood in English seats at last year’s general election, including the MP and former Ed Miliband adviser Jon Cruddas, reflect on their personal experiences on the doorstep as Labour drifted towards defeat – and warn that the party has increasingly lost touch with its working-class roots.

Suzy Stride, who stood unsuccessfully for the Essex seat of Harlow – in a piece written with her campaign organiser Jacob Quagliozzi – says Labour’s strategy was to bus in scores of middle-class activists, who looked and sounded very different from many voters.

“Without doubt the most frequent thing people said to us on the doorstep was: ‘You’re all the same.’ Increasingly, as time went on, we realised that ‘You’re all the same’ really meant: ‘You’re nothing like me’ or ‘You know nothing about my life’ – and to an extent they were right.”


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/22/labour-activists-in-2015-were-like-middle-class-ryanair-passengers

The people who make up the party now are all just driven by the liberal lefty agenda. They're pro mass uncontrolled immigration whereas the people who used to vote Labour have to live with its consequences and when the voters complain to the Labour pols like Gillian Duffy with Gordon Brown they're derided as racists and bigots. The Gillian Duffy thing was Labour's problem in a nutshell, Gordon Brown having to apologise for saying something he clearly believed in or face a Labour voter meltdown. Even more of a nutshell, the photograph at the top of the post. Sneering and condescending and outright dislike by people who have nothing in common with the people they're supposed to be representing.
 

Newcastle Fan

Central Defender
I was told that being pro mass immigration is a left wing/labour ideal earlier in this thread. Funnily enough every single Labour voter I spoke to today thinks immigration levels need to be drastically reduced. They don't hate people because they have different skin colours, they aren't racist. They just have a problem with the scale.

Looks like I'm left wing after all.

Phew

This is a must read, sums up labour's problems excellently. It's a bit longer than what I've copied and pasted but I couldn't fit it all in one post.

https://medium.com/@Layo_91/how-middle-class-liberals-destroyed-the-labour-party-8256e707ec01#.2nq7ptbjb

Important bits:

My pleas fell on deaf-ears. I watched as rational, educated individuals hugged the warm blanket of electoral myths. I watched as my comrades sank into self-indulgence. For decades the Left have hung on to the idea that amongst the large numbers of non-voters, there is a secret well of staunch left-wingers waiting on the day that we build Jerusalem. If only we had a candidate who could reach out to them. Yet there is no evidence that non-voters lean predominantly to the Left. Immediately after the election The Trade Union Congress produced a wealth of polling on the attitudes of non-voters. When asked what prevented non-voters from supporting Labour, the top 4 responses were: 35% ‘don’t know’, 30% ‘they can’t be trusted with the economy’, 23% ‘they would make it too easy for people to live on benefits’, 22% ‘they would raise taxes’. That hardly sounds like the talk of ardent social democrats.

Time and time again Scotland was used as a stick to beat pragmatism with. Yet the idea that Labour lost their seats in Scotland because they were too centrist doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. It was clear that moving to the Left in an attempt to win a handful of seats in Scotland while alienating the Tory voters we needed to win over across England, would be an act blind self-destruction. And it was. Moving to the Left in Scotland helped the Tories to portray themselves as the credible Unionist voice in Scotland. The SNP crushed Labour earlier this month. Humiliatingly, Labour are now the third biggest Party in Scotland.

Perhaps the most pervasive myth reeled out verbatim in stuffy community halls across the land was that Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity’. This independent inquiry into Labour’s defeat revealed that the opposite was true; the Tories didn’t win despite austerity, they won because of it. The result was brutal for the Left. Voters instead rejected Labour because they perceived the Party as anti-austerity lite. 58% agree that, ‘we must live within our means so cutting the deficit is the top priority’. Just 16% disagree. Almost all Tories and a majority of Lib Dems and Ukip voters agreed.

The idea Labour lost because they were ‘pro-austerity lite’ was a comforting falsehood for many of us on Left. Like many liberal-lefties I believed that austerity was an unnecessary burden that hit the poorest while stunting growth. I didn’t believe we could cut our way out of recession. I too went on marches to voice my opinion in the hope that someone other the people walking next to me would listen. I don’t think anyone did.

Time and time again I was told that people voted for the Conservatives instead of Labour because they were ‘basically the same’, and this meant Labour wasn’t far enough to the Left. It was a favoured argument by a chattering-Left whose lives would be relatively untouched by tax-credit cuts or benefits caps. Why would a voter, annoyed at Labour being ‘pro-austerity lite’, disappointed they weren’t left-wing or radical enough, choose to go and vote Conservative? It is counter-intuitive, and this argument is downright illogical. To argue this point is to simply pedal wilful ignorance.

The self-righteousness of the metropolitan left combined with the cultism of the far-left has created a toxic cocktail of absolutism and puritanism within the Labour Party. If you are a Labour member and speak out against this ‘New Politics’ you will be confronted with a wall of vitriol or worse.

A middle class liberal cannot understand a working class individual voting for the Tories (because surely it would be against their economic interests, no?). The liberal middle class cannot understand working class voters, so they are instead treated with a gentle distain. Just look that how the Labour Party now talks about immigration. Simply repeating that freedom of movement is “generally good thing” and “migration is a plus to our economy”, is patronising and paternalistic towards socially conservative voters. We can’t just tell working class people what is good for them and expect their vote.

To the middle-class liberals, the difference between the centrist Labour government and a Tory government seem academic. Anyway, a Tory government creates a righteous fire in our bellies and each protest we’ll plan for their fall. Of course we hate their cuts, but they won’t actually ruin our lives. So here we are, the Labour Party is becoming a minority party of sectional interests of a liberal middle class.
 
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