£200m Sunderland Blueprint

Osklen

Goalkeeper
Give over.....you grow by offering less?!!

Nah

The city centre dominates one side of the river.....it needs to expand to the north
Hey just my opinion. My thought process is that each business / development becomes more viable as demand for property increases due to reduced amount and as footfall is concentrated in a much small area providing a more vibrant area rather than spread across the city.

My analogy would be that the atmosphere at the SOL would be better if it was returned to a 30/35,000 seater stadium now, with a view to it growing back to 40,000+ if we were ever to be successfull. At the moment the stadium is just too big for us and most of it redundant, much like the city centre.

I would add however that there is an argument to build a brand new city centre on the sheepfolds and Vaux site, and to just get rid of the rest however that is seems even more unlikely.
 
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citybythesea

Midfield
Hey just my opinion. My thought process is that each business / development becomes more viable as demand for property increases due to reduced amount and as footfall is concentrated in a much small area providing a more vibrant area rather than spread across the city.

My analogy would be that the atmosphere at the SOL would be better if it was returned to a 30/35,000 seater stadium now, with a view to it growing back to 40,000+ if we were ever to be successfull. At the moment the stadium is just too big for us and most of it redundant, much like the city centre.

I would add however that there is an argument to build a brand new city centre on the sheepfolds and Vaux site, and to just get rid of the rest however that is seems even more unlikely.
Yes but a city centre should be much more than retail accommodation......its an old way of thinking.....really the city centre needs to be a mixture of offices,commerce, cultural attractions, apartments, leisure, education facilities, civic centre...etc but amenities compliment each other, businesses compliment each other....i.e. it needs to be the urban centre that is sustained by outlying suburbs.

The sheepfolds is prime for expanding the city centre...what would you have there otherwise? leave it a wasteland
 

captain fatty

Goalkeeper
There’s a good hall type market in Belfast which does very well. It’s an older arcade style building which is more aesthetically pleasing than Jacky Whites.
The offering is very good in terms of multi cultural cuisines, craft stalks and live music. There’s nothing like this as a weekly feature in the north east as far as I am aware.
Best fish stall I've ever seen there, first class
 

42

Midfield
Of ciurse it was a serious plan.Why spent thoysands on fees to architects,consultants,etc in the first place if not serious.? Sunderland arc turned out to be a failing development company.
There was a serious plan for regeneration. But there was no money spent a foodbridge other than the artists impression
 
Fair walk to the Metro station.
Or direct buses to the town down Newcastle road?
Or even on that massive cleared site near the new bridge. There's enough land either side of Wessington way for another lane either way to get on and off the a19. The junction needs sorting out on the a19 mind as it's always been a bottleneck.
 

42

Midfield
Do you realise the space for leisure / entertainment development the clueless backward thinking Sund council have plans for predominantly housing.? Just thought id mention it.

Wrong they were first appointed in 1999.

When both sides of the river are eventually long overdue developed the footbtidge will be needed.Your type cant see further than their noses.
The arc task force were appointed in 1999. The actual ARC wasnt formed until 2002. With no plans released until about 2003
 
There’s a good hall type market in Belfast which does very well. It’s an older arcade style building which is more aesthetically pleasing than Jacky Whites.
The offering is very good in terms of multi cultural cuisines, craft stalks and live music. There’s nothing like this as a weekly feature in the north east as far as I am aware.
From what I've seen, people are more likely to go to budget butchers than a food hall type of thing. Cost is a big factor in the town where you see people shopping for cheap rather than quality. The closing of fish mongers in the area is really sad bearing in mind how close to the sea.
There was a thing on the tele last night ( ed balls) about our fishing industry and the main thing highlighted was how much we export and not eating it ourselves. You go to say, France and every supermarket has an amazing fishmonger. They really take pride in their products and people buy it but it's not cheap.
 

Osklen

Goalkeeper
Yes but a city centre should be much more than retail accommodation......its an old way of thinking.....really the city centre needs to be a mixture of offices,commerce, cultural attractions, apartments, leisure, education facilities, civic centre...etc but amenities compliment each other, businesses compliment each other....i.e. it needs to be the urban centre that is sustained by outlying suburbs.

The sheepfolds is prime for expanding the city centre...what would you have there otherwise? leave it a wasteland
Sorry I think i may have confused what you were saying. I agree entirely that the city centre needs to change and that it needs significantly more people living in it and sheepfolds represent a great opportunity to do so. Commercial officer development is unlikely to go on there as there are plenty of other areas that need developing first namely the Vaux site. As for cultural and leisure attractions then I think they had previously earmarked sheepfolds as the stadium village site which included leisure and residential development, interspersed with food and beverage offer. Suspect these budgets that are being sort is to deliver the councils plans for stadium village or something similar

Or direct buses to the town down Newcastle road?
Or even on that massive cleared site near the new bridge. There's enough land either side of Wessington way for another lane either way to get on and off the a19. The junction needs sorting out on the a19 mind as it's always been a bottleneck.
Not wessington way but they had previously said they were going to improve a690 junction.

 
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Paddy O'Dors

Striker
Or direct buses to the town down Newcastle road?
Or even on that massive cleared site near the new bridge. There's enough land either side of Wessington way for another lane either way to get on and off the a19. The junction needs sorting out on the a19 mind as it's always been a bottleneck.
For a P&R to work you need a dedicated bus service rather than tag onto an existing one, with say £3 a car charge. Neebody will pay the cost of getting a family of 4 say onto the existing number 20 from the driving range.

The new bridge would be a good site mind.
 

Osklen

Goalkeeper
For a P&R to work you need a dedicated bus service rather than tag onto an existing one, with say £3 a car charge. Neebody will pay the cost of getting a family of 4 say onto the existing number 20 from the driving range.

The new bridge would be a good site mind.
Potential to park at stadium and walk into town perhaps?
 

Sid James Park

Goalkeeper
Wrong. Tom McCartney was appointed CEO in 2002.

The idea of regeneration companies to develop brownfield sites with private money was first floated by Stephen Byers in 1999.
Sunderland arc was appointed in 1999.
Give over.....you grow by offering less?!!

Nah

The city centre dominates one side of the river.....it needs to expand to the north
Dominates 😄😄😄😄
There was a serious plan for regeneration. But there was no money spent a foodbridge other than the artists impression
In other words a failing council and development co.
 
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Can't say I am too impressed by building a carpark on the Vaux site. That almost comes across as desperate just to get something down on there, although I appreciate the arguments the office workers need somewhere to park (is that carpark next to Vaux connecting to high street M&S not good enough though?)
So we will have a car park next to another car park- ive wasted my life in this town
 

Osklen

Goalkeeper
Sunderland arc was appointed in 1999.

Dominates 😄😄😄😄

In other words a failing council and development co.
According to this research paper it was 2002. It still doesn’t dispel the fact that nothing has happened and that it’s taken longer than it should have. The major disruption has obviously been acquiring the land.

http://nrl.northumbria.ac.uk/3309/1/Mechanisms of urban change - regeneration companies or development corporations.pdf
So we will have a car park next to another car park- ive wasted my life in this town
You have to remember that the article in the paper only refers to the councils bid for funding of projects it is / will be doing itself. There is chance (hope) that these investments will bring private sector investment.
 
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According to this research paper it was 2002. It still doesn’t dispel the fact that nothing has happened and that it’s taken longer than it should have. The major disruption has obviously been acquiring the land.

http://nrl.northumbria.ac.uk/3309/1/Mechanisms of urban change - regeneration companies or development corporations.pdf


You have to remember that the article in the paper only refers to the councils bid for funding of projects it is / will be doing itself. There is chance (hope) that these investments will bring private sector investment.

ie we need to do this to get SAFC taken over.
 

42

Midfield
Sunderland arc was appointed in 1999.

Dominates 😄😄😄😄

In other words a failing council and development co.
Heres something for you to think about. Throughout the 80's 90's 00's the main responsibility for regeneration lay with RDA's. These tended to favour Newcastle.
When the Tories abolished them & transfered that responsibility back to councils in 2010, we've seen more investment in Sunderland than I care to remember.
You blame the council for not buying vaux 1st time round. But they probably didnt have the money as when they did buy it, it was via a government grant. The reality probably is that it was ONE NE who are to blame for not buying it first time round.
 

Osklen

Goalkeeper
Heres something for you to think about. Throughout the 80's 90's 00's the main responsibility for regeneration lay with RDA's. These tended to favour Newcastle.
When the Tories abolished them & transfered that responsibility back to councils in 2010, we've seen more investment in Sunderland than I care to remember.
You blame the council for not buying vaux 1st time round. But they probably didnt have the money as when they did buy it, it was via a government grant. The reality probably is that it was ONE NE who are to blame for not buying it first time round.
I’ve been trying to find some info on the history or the acquisition of the site and only thing I can find is:

Value dispute as brewery site draws interest

Which states that SCC were looking to compulsory purchase the site due to a disagreement in value. I have also seen somewhere that Colin Anderson wasn’t against Tesco developing the site so perhaps they let it happen. I just can’t seem to find any reasonable source.

I did also find these minutes of parliament which shows that the company which purchased Vaux were about asset stripping and getting as high a capital receipt as possible:

Vaux Brewery (Hansard, 29 April 1999)
 
Sorry I think i may have confused what you were saying. I agree entirely that the city centre needs to change and that it needs significantly more people living in it and sheepfolds represent a great opportunity to do so. Commercial officer development is unlikely to go on there as there are plenty of other areas that need developing first namely the Vaux site. As for cultural and leisure attractions then I think they had previously earmarked sheepfolds as the stadium village site which included leisure and residential development, interspersed with food and beverage offer. Suspect these budgets that are being sort is to deliver the councils plans for stadium village or something similar



Not wessington way but they had previously said they were going to improve a690 junction.

On the last few trips up I’ve come off the A19 and come through Ryhope and up through the east end as opposed to Wessington way as it seems quicker missing out on the junction on Wessington way. I’ve used Durham rd and Chester road over the years but getting over the bridge from the west always seems slower. It’s not the distance as it’s only a few miles, it’s traffic and too many roundabouts or lights. I really can see why there’s a issue with the port over the years if it takes so long to get into it.
 

Osklen

Goalkeeper
On the last few trips up I’ve come off the A19 and come through Ryhope and up through the east end as opposed to Wessington way as it seems quicker missing out on the junction on Wessington way. I’ve used Durham rd and Chester road over the years but getting over the bridge from the west always seems slower. It’s not the distance as it’s only a few miles, it’s traffic and too many roundabouts or lights. I really can see why there’s a issue with the port over the years if it takes so long to get into it.
Agreed. I think that is really the whole point of sstc to provide a more direct route into the city centre from the a19 from both the south and the north of the city as none of the other routes (Durham rd, Chester rd and Newcastle rd) are ideal and mixes a lot of commuting/business traffic with resi traffic.
 

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