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NUFC/Sportswashing - Summer 2022

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Skellington said:
I always come back to the point that this is Saudi Arabia we’re talking about and I can’t see them giving the slightest fuck about financial fair play - if they wanted to pour money into NUFC like the golf then they would go ahead and do it regardless of what the rules might be.

There isn’t a law or regulation that mob of scumbags wouldn’t feel entitled to break.

Just can’t see them diligently bean counting with their calculators to stay within the rules while PSG, Chelsea, and others seem to be able to spend huge sums.

Where are all these sponsorship deals and investment in the region anyway? It’s been nearly a year and there’s absolutely no sign of it aside from a sleeve sponsor.

They aren’t spending because they aren’t interested, not because of their deep respect for the sacred FFP regulations.
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This, as if the Saudis give a fuck about fair play.
They happily kill people ffs.
 
xVJ said:
Because transfers are amortised over the contract of a player, an increase in revenue of 20/30m is quite substantial for balancing the books.
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Aye I know but clubs can only buy so many new players before they have a conveyor of players as new ones come in only when old ones drop off. You can't keep buying numerous new £40m-£60m players each season spreading it over 3/4/5 years or whatever as the players from previous seasons will also be on the books.

A daft example is 3 new players each season at £40m over 4 years means a payment of £120m come the 4th season as all 12 players will be due a £10m payment. In the 5th season that's a total payment of £300m over 3 seasons regarding FFP and basically £100m of revenue is going on players fees alone per season. That is ignoring any wages/bonuses etc and even Man City style sponsor fiddling wouldn't cover that.

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Even just 2 new £40m players on 4 year contracts works out at a total payment of £80m after 4 seasons and £200m over the 3 seasons.

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How much has been spent so far on players? Could it be that in 2 or 3 seasons if the big money hasn't come that spending may well be restricted due to FPP as even sponsor fiddling will be maxxed out?
 
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xVJ said:
This was my point. Even though we never will, I would be interested to see how the PL plans on deciding what is determined as market value due to the multitude of factors that could be taken into consideration.

Because transfers are amortised over the contract of a player, an increase in revenue of 20/30m is quite substantial for balancing the books.
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It's been explained to you time and time again on here. Despite Big Mike leaving you in a decent position financially, you simply don't have the room within the PL spending criteria to do anything of note.


Unless of course your owners do to PL HQ what they did to the twin towers.....
 
Sporty said:
Aye I know but clubs can only buy so many new players before they have a conveyor of players as new ones come in only when old ones drop off. You can't keep buying numerous new £40m-£60m players each season spreading it over 3/4/5 years or whatever as the players from previous seasons will also be on the books.

A daft example is 3 new players each season at £40m over 4 years means a payment of £120m come the 4th season as all 12 players will be due a £10m payment. In the 5th season that's a total payment of £300m over 3 seasons regarding FFP and basically £100m of revenue is going on players fees alone per season. That is ignoring any wages/bonuses etc and even Man City style sponsor fiddling wouldn't cover that.

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Even just 2 new £40m players on 4 year contracts works out at a total payment of £80m after 4 seasons and £200m over the 3 seasons.

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How much has been spent so far on players? Could it be that in 2 or 3 seasons if the big money hasn't come that spending may well be restricted due to FPP as even sponsor fiddling will be maxxed out?
Click to expand...

Another thing to consider is at the moment they have some players on modest wages and as each 40k per player is replaced with a 100k pw one it adds 3m to the wage bill. They likely already added 2m per month in January - the sleeve deal will barely pay a few months of extra wages. The turnover can’t sustain it unless match tickets and commercial rises substantially.
 
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Sporty said:
Waffling on....................................

Even just 2 new £40m players on 4 year contracts works out at a total payment of £80m after 4 seasons and £200m over the 3 seasons.

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How much has been spent so far on players? Could it be that in 2 or 3 seasons if the big money hasn't come that spending may well be restricted due to FPP as even sponsor fiddling will be maxxed out?
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A quick guestimate at the 6 players who've been bought so far. I see Targett is supposedly on £100k a week (
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surely not?) so there's another £5m on wages if true. Chances are the other 5 are adding close to £300k a week if not more (£15m) so that's another £20m on wages a season at a rough guess (I've seen reports of Tripper & Bruno also on £100k).

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It's already eating quite a lot into the 3 year FFP malarkey with around £150m for those players in seasons 23/24 & 24/25 and that's before any new players adding to it. Obviously other players will be out of contract in coming seasons but their savings won't be as high as any new players coming in to replace them. They could go down the Bosman route of course and hoy money on just the wages with players like Lingard, though even big money still won't attract every player up North.

I think NUFC need some serious FPP work around cheat unless they suddenly become a regular Champions League team season upon season within a couple seasons. That will help them increase their global brand hugely but will it be enough to catch up on the £100m+ commercial revenue that some of the big 6 enjoy over them. It's not only that as there's other parts of the business the big 6 dominate the rest such as matchday receipt. Tickets will have to at least double, if not triple if wanting to compete with the big 6 but will people be able to afford it?

Like I said, I think the revenue jump from sub £200m of the also rans catch Arsenal at mid £300m's is just too much now. Everton got summit like low £200's in 2019/20 but a huge wage bill as did Leicester as it was higher than their revenue! Leicester are not in Europe this season so revenue will probably be dropping this season. Will they even be able to recover if they don't get into Europe again and just end up mid or lower table team again? Newcastle were behind Everton & Leicester's revenue in last revenue figures I think but that was obviously affected by COVID and last seasons revenues with full crowds again won't be known for a while yet.




The catch-22 is without the huge revenue increase, how can NUFC keep buying top level players to sustain the top positions to keep getting the huge revenue? Leicester got up there and their revenue went up after they won the league but look at them now, overspent with a huge wage bull. It looks like they'll have to sell before they can reinvest or bring some players through or get 'em cheap like Chilwell, Mahrez, Drinkwater so they can shift on for big profits to reinvest.

Everton never even got much in return for their investment and look at them now, nearly relegated and also looking and even another potential relegation battle. I just can't see NUFC breaking into that big 6 club permanently due to the huge gap in revenue that comes from the global brand of the big 6 commanding far bigger money in sponsors/merchandise/commercial deals than the also rans, even if NUFC try to fiddle the deals. Who knows, maybe they will or they just join the European Super League when it inevitably materialises.

I wonder if any mags are dubious as to whether they get success and if not could potentially end up like Everton and Leicester and all spent up without any way to reinvest big money?
 
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Sporty said:
Aye I know but clubs can only buy so many new players before they have a conveyor of players as new ones come in only when old ones drop off. You can't keep buying numerous new £40m-£60m players each season spreading it over 3/4/5 years or whatever as the players from previous seasons will also be on the books.
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You're absolutely correct. Sponsorships and PL prize money can only get a club so far without European prize money and, probably more importantly, player sales. As much as Newcastle Twitter would disagree, we more than likely need to follow a Southampton/Leicester model of developing youth/promising players for profit before there's a sniff at consistently finishing above 8th/9th.

Sporty said:
How much has been spent so far on players? Could it be that in 2 or 3 seasons if the big money hasn't come that spending may well be restricted due to FPP as even sponsor fiddling will be maxxed out?
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If we continued to spend as we have these past two transfer windows I think we'd run into issues faster than most fans expect. From what I've read online (which could be wildly wrong) we have approx. 600m (including amortisation) of wiggle room with FFP over the next 3 years. Of course it would be daft business to spend that all straight away and risk ending up in a similar situation to Everton.
 
xVJ said:
You're absolutely correct. Sponsorships and PL prize money can only get a club so far without European prize money and, probably more importantly, player sales. As much as Newcastle Twitter would disagree, we more than likely need to follow a Southampton/Leicester model of developing youth/promising players for profit before there's a sniff at consistently finishing above 8th/9th.


If we continued to spend as we have these past two transfer windows I think we'd run into issues faster than most fans expect. From what I've read online (which could be wildly wrong) we have approx. 600m (including amortisation) of wiggle room with FFP over the next 3 years. Of course it would be daft business to spend that all straight away and risk ending up in a similar situation to Everton.
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Haway then let's see this £600 million.
 
xVJ said:
You're absolutely correct. Sponsorships and PL prize money can only get a club so far without European prize money and, probably more importantly, player sales. As much as Newcastle Twitter would disagree, we more than likely need to follow a Southampton/Leicester model of developing youth/promising players for profit before there's a sniff at consistently finishing above 8th/9th.


If we continued to spend as we have these past two transfer windows I think we'd run into issues faster than most fans expect. From what I've read online (which could be wildly wrong) we have approx. 600m (including amortisation) of wiggle room with FFP over the next 3 years. Of course it would be daft business to spend that all straight away and risk ending up in a similar situation to Everton.
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Aye, there's no denying they've got money to invest in players though £600m is a bit steep isn't it? I thought it was summit like £200m? Did you see the link someone hoyed up recently by Swiss Ramble? Aye Ashley made a profit over the last 3 seasons but next season the £23m profit from 2017/18 will drop off the FPP numbers as will others over the following 2 seasons. That wiggle room only has a lifetime of 3 seasons before it's worth nowt and the latest player investment kicks in. It would be stupid to increase spending and the wage bill that much now as it will be count over the next 3 years.

Look at his many replying tweets as there's quite a few of them including this one that is similar to what I just did but a lot more details and certainly closer to the actual numbers. I just realised I missed out Botman's £40m so there's another £10m plus wages per season to add to it (I've seen £50k mentioned so £2.5m). It looks like Swiss Ramble hasn't included the bonus Atletico Madrid got from Trippier due to NUFC staying up, whereas I just added it to his fee but even so it's already eaten quite a bit into the 3 year running total for seasons 2023/24 & 2024/25. Any new player purchases this season and next will add even more to it so just how many more players could NUFC realistically purchase?

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It's clear NUFC are taking the cautious and sensible approach in some ways and possibly why they're missing out on players as clubs don't want to sell players on tick, especially at lower fees. Whereas quite of lot of mag fans (usually those on tw@tter) thinks they should be buying players no matter what the cost. You obviously know the potential consequences of doing that so I presume you happy they're doing it this way?
 
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Sporty said:
Aye, there's no denying they've got money to invest in players though £600m is a bit steep isn't it? I thought it was summit like £200m? Did you see the link someone hoyed up recently by Swiss Ramble? Aye Ashley made a profit over the last 3 seasons but next season the £23m profit from 2017/18 will drop off the FPP numbers as will others over the following 2 seasons. That wiggle room only has a lifetime of 3 seasons before it's worth nowt and the latest player investment kicks in. It would be stupid to increase spending and the wage bill that much now as it will be count over the next 3 years.

Look at his many replying tweets as there's quite a few of them including this one that is similar to what I just did but a lot more details and certainly closer to the actual numbers. I just realised I missed out Botman's £40m so there's another £10m plus wages per season to add to it (I've seen £50k mentioned so £2.5m). It looks like Swiss Ramble hasn't included the bonus Atletico Madrid got from Trippier due to NUFC staying up, whereas I just added it to his fee but even so it's already eaten quite a bit into the 3 year running total for seasons 2023/24 & 2024/25. Any new player purchases this season and next will add even more to it so just how many more players could NUFC realistically purchase?

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You must be logged on to see media items

It's clear NUFC are taking the cautious and sensible approach in some ways and possibly why they're missing out on players as clubs don't want to sell players on tick, especially at lower fees. Whereas quite of lot of mag fans (usually those on tw@tter) thinks they should be buying players no matter what the cost. You obviously know the potential consequences of doing that so I presume you happy they're doing it this way?
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Yep circa £200 million but as you say, Big Mike and his prudency drop off, leaving them in a bit of a pickle after what they've already spent.


But.... £600 million.
xVJ said:
You're absolutely correct. Sponsorships and PL prize money can only get a club so far without European prize money and, probably more importantly, player sales. As much as Newcastle Twitter would disagree, we more than likely need to follow a Southampton/Leicester model of developing youth/promising players for profit before there's a sniff at consistently finishing above 8th/9th.


If we continued to spend as we have these past two transfer windows I think we'd run into issues faster than most fans expect. From what I've read online (which could be wildly wrong) we have approx. 600m (including amortisation) of wiggle room with FFP over the next 3 years. Of course it would be daft business to spend that all straight away and risk ending up in a similar situation to Everton.
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Still in waiting....
 
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Sporty said:
Aye, there's no denying they've got money to invest in players though £600m is a bit steep isn't it?
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Secret Visage said:
Still in waiting....
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I forgot to mention that the £600m was an estimate from before the winter and summer transfer window so it's much less now but yeah, I believe the 200m is a raw transfer fee that doesn't take amortisation or wages into account.
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Sporty said:
Aye Ashley made a profit over the last 3 seasons but next season the £23m profit from 2017/18 will drop off the FPP numbers as will others over the following 2 seasons. That wiggle room only has a lifetime of 3 seasons before it's worth nowt and the latest player investment kicks in. It would be stupid to increase spending and the wage bill that much now as it will be count over the next 3 years.
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I think this is what a lot of our fans don't understand when quoting the theoretical max we can spend. As good as Ashley was at running a financially sound business, those benefits are lost pretty rapidly. We literally cannot spend as much as people want or we risk being unable to spend in future windows, and possibly for a long time.

Sporty said:
It's clear NUFC are taking the cautious and sensible approach in some ways and possibly why they're missing out on players as clubs don't want to sell players on tick, especially at lower fees. Whereas quite of lot of mag fans (usually those on tw@tter) thinks they should be buying players no matter what the cost. You obviously know the potential consequences of doing that so I presume you happy they're doing it this way?
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Twitter is a cesspool of shit. I'd like to think they're having a bit of a laugh but I'm pretty sure most of them are deadly serious. But yeah, I think slow and steady is the best way forward. I'd like to buy players who are young, relatively unknown and have the potential to develop while actually looking to build a functioning academy.
 
herra soul mob said:
what if jonjur was in midfield for england and dan 'baresi ' burn at cb ?
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Just saw this reply:

"Tough one. Personally wouldn't like to see Pope, Trippier, Targett and Wilson lose"

So four of them in the side plus three in the Brazil team, including one who doesn't play for them and one has never played for the national side. Said it before and will say it again - many of them have zero football knowledge.
 
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