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NUFC/Sportswashing - Summer 2022

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MidnightRoker said:
Hey, I said give me a few minutes, cool your jets.

Firstly, I’m conflicted about whether it should have been allowed or not. Because a sovereign wealth fund doesn’t inherently mean state ownership. For example if a country’s state pension fund bought a stake in a club purely intending to see a return would that be state interference? No, because they are ran by fund managers looking for monetary value not political value. The issue with the Saudi fund is that it’s impossible to know if that separation is really in place as the Premier League obviously can’t ever know for sure. But the fact is, that legally on paper the Saudi state DON’T own Newcastle, and technicalities like that are what’s important in business transactions not optics or assumptions about the practice of such an arrangement. Sovereign wealth funds owning clubs should have been banned in the rules of the league to avoid situations like this with grey areas of ownership, but it’s too late now, the horse has bolted and it’s the league’s fault (unless Boris made them allow it to complete).

As for the moral aspect, that’s an incredibly difficult subject and too many on both sides are oversimplifying the situation. Firstly I’ll qualify that I’m fully against the homophobia, human rights abuses, second class status of women and all other aspects of Saudi life that we in the UK find reprehensible by our standards. But therein lies the problem, they are OUR standards. What do we call it when we push our beliefs ideals and standards on another sovereign nation? Colonialism? Xenophobia? Think about it from the other perspective, have you read any scare stories about establishing Sharia law in areas of the UK, how did you feel about that? I would prefer to see full democracy, secularism and robust human rights in every country in the world, but does that make me a globalist? Another dirty word. Fact is, you should leave sovereign counties to do their own thing, if they want to make their country an awful repressive place to live, that’s their problem and we should’ve learned by now that interfering just causes huge problems (Afghanistan anyone?). Vote with your wallet if you don’t want to contribute to a regime that does things you don’t like, but getting high and mighty over other people who give money to a UK ally, just puts you on shaky ground and wide open to accusations of hypocrisy if you are inconsistent (like for example if you buy something made in China where they have concentration camps, and who are ostensibly a UK adversary).

As for Yemen, that seems to be a stick used to beat Newcastle fans with, but many (on both sides) don’t seem to actually know what is happening there. Sunderland fans who act like it’s a Russia Ukraine situation are wrong, but Newcastle fans that defend it while thinking the same are actually MORE wrong. It isn’t one Sovereign nation attacking another, it is a coalition headed by SA attempting to put down a civil war in Yemen at the invitation of the legitimate Yemeni government as recognised by the UN Security Council (of which the UK is a permanent member) so on the one side you have the Saudis and a large coalition of various countries that are generally considered (comparatively) more moderate westernised Muslim nations, backed and armed by UK US and various European allies. And on the other side you have the Houthi rebels who are the stereotypical ‘death to the west’ Islamic extremists, backed by Iran, Syria and rumour has it North Korea. Now there’s a discussion to be had that the collateral damage is unacceptable and SA bombing tactics are unethical, but they are using bombs we sell them, so when you talk about Yemeni kids dying should that criticism be directed at football fans rather than politicians? Did we not do the same in Iraq and Afghanistan? I’m from an armed forces family, my brother used to attach bombs to jets at camp Bastion and I’m sure everyone on here knows at least someone who has done a tour or two, so are we throwing stones in glass house by complaining about UK bombs dropped by UK allies?

I know it’s a bitter pill to swallow and the takeover should never have happened as politics and football don’t mix well, but the fact is that if you support the Houthi rebels against the UN rubber stamped SA intervention then you support a group whose slogan is:

“God is the greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam".

If you’ve accidentally stood up for that group then maybe, just maybe you’ve let football tribalism affect your judgement, because I honestly don’t believe either Newcastle fans or Sunderland fans support Islamic fundamentalism. At least not the ones in my family or friends.
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Which football club does the u.k government own?Did the Yemeni bairns getting killed shout this slogan?You think they are reforming?81 executions 2 months ago says they are not.Oh, and you are definitely a mag
MidnightRoker said:
A distinction with no difference. I said “The issue with the Saudi fund is that it’s impossible to know if that separation is really in place as the Premier League obviously can’t ever know for sure” you’re arguing with me by using the point I made. You obviously just carelessly quickly read and dismissed my post.

Whataboutery is when you bring up something to distract. I brought up the issues with SA myself so it’s hardly that. I mentioned other things for context to frame the situation in a way that is less hypocritical. That’s not minimisation. My issues with the ethics of SA can be still be part of a bigger picture. Because the world is not black & white and nothing happens in a vacuum.

That would be a better solution, but that’s not the reality of the situation so you’re wasting your time even thinking about that. The reality boils down to it being a proxy war between KSA and Iran at this stage. And no matter what you say you’re never going to convince me that we aren’t better off allied with the side opposing Iran no matter how distasteful an alliance may be. Geo Politics isn’t as simple as good vs evil, and the UK is not that many generations ahead of KSA in terms of homophobia, women’s rights, capital punishment etc and attacking other countries is much more recent in our history. Maybe the world (and this forum) would do better leading by example than telling people what they should do. The casual racism I’ve seen on here like people using terms like ‘camel jockey’ and ‘head choppers’ etc just makes it seem a whole lot less like legitimate concerns about civil rights or rules of engagement in bombing campaigns.
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You said we should stay out of things, now you are saying it's good we are allied with saudi
MidnightRoker said:
I was asked for my opinion so I gave it, from an impartial perspective. Is that against the rules here? Restriction of free speech would be pretty spectacularly ironic in this context I would say.
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You are definitely not impartial.Whats your nephew called at the academy?
 
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Hatful Of Hollow said:
:lol: obvious wum
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What on Earth does that mean? Is this part of the tactic to pretend everyone who doesn’t 100% sing from the same hymn sheet is a Newcastle fan undercover? At the risk of repeating myself, I’m a Liverpool fan and I’ve spent at least a 3rd of my life in Sunderland. At various points in time I’ve lived in Seaham, Roker, St Peter’s and City centre. I still have family in one of those places and a nephew in the academy. And if you worked yourself in the black cats bar about 13-14 years ago I might have chucked you out the ground at some point.
Skylon said:
You are definitely not impartial.Whats your nephew called at the academy?
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As if I’d tell you that you mug, he’s just a bairn. You know for a fact I wouldn’t, so you just wanted to try and use that as evidence I’m making it up. Transparently pathetic. I’ll be urging him to follow his cousin up the road at this rate.
 
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The comments on this are Gold. THEY DONT WANT TO PLAY FOR MURDERERS

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"Weyhhadaway4 hours ago edited

So, Ronaldo gets a great offer from a Saudi team. Three weeks in and he hates it over there, can’t get on with the coach, but it’s obviously not Ronny’s fault. Right on deadline day he signs for the Toon on loan for a year from the Saudi team. Stranger things. LOL"
 
MidnightRoker said:
What on Earth does that mean? Is this part of the tactic to pretend everyone who doesn’t 100% sing from the same hymn sheet is a Newcastle fan undercover? At the risk of repeating myself, I’m a Liverpool fan and I’ve spent at least a 3rd of my life in Sunderland. At various points in time I’ve lived in Seaham, Roker, St Peter’s and City centre. I still have family in one of those places and a nephew in the academy. And if you worked yourself in the black cats bar about 13-14 years ago I might have chucked you out the ground at some point.

As if I’d tell you that you mug, he’s just a bairn. You know for a fact I wouldn’t, so you just wanted to try and use that as evidence I’m making it up. Transparently pathetic. I’ll be urging him to follow his cousin up the road at this rate.
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Ha ha ha.Your mask is slipping(it already has ,to be honest).You absolute goon, imagine asking all that up ,to look 'impartial'.
MidnightRoker said:
What on Earth does that mean? Is this part of the tactic to pretend everyone who doesn’t 100% sing from the same hymn sheet is a Newcastle fan undercover? At the risk of repeating myself, I’m a Liverpool fan and I’ve spent at least a 3rd of my life in Sunderland. At various points in time I’ve lived in Seaham, Roker, St Peter’s and City centre. I still have family in one of those places and a nephew in the academy. And if you worked yourself in the black cats bar about 13-14 years ago I might have chucked you out the ground at some point.

As if I’d tell you that you mug, he’s just a bairn. You know for a fact I wouldn’t, so you just wanted to try and use that as evidence I’m making it up. Transparently pathetic. I’ll be urging him to follow his cousin up the road at this rate.
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Where's St Peters? You have lived in a metro station? Are you a bum? A mag bum.Ha ha ha
 
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Skylon said:
Where's St Peters? You have lived in a metro station? Are you a bum? A mag bum.Ha ha ha
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I lived in Bonner’s Raff which is basically between St Peter’s station and St Peter’s Campus where I was studying at the time. Oh dear, do I know more about that area than you do? I guess you must be the secret mag! This place is absolutely rife with paranoia.
 
Not sure what’s worse the embarrassing craic or the tw8ts he’s tagged in for attention

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Sporty said:
More of the video here though the beginning is missing. I'm not sure how anyone can believe Hall was talking about an actual game in that Tw@tter video as it was clearly him 'acting' :lol: You see in the video below he was right at the start and again at around 1 min 51 secs with the same clobber on.

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Nobody thought it was an actual game, it was the fact he was happy to play along and introduce it as a European Super League game then come out a few years later saying how much of a disgrace it is, two faced as fk just like all the mags on here pretending to be Sunderland fans. I didn’t think that needed explaining obviously it did but thanks for scouring the tinternet to find the full video to defend John Hall :eek:
 
MidnightRoker said:
I lived in Bonner’s Raff which is basically between St Peter’s station and St Peter’s Campus where I was studying at the time. Oh dear, do I know more about that area than you do? I guess you must be the secret mag! This place is absolutely rife with paranoia.
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Don't know anyone who calls that area St Peters or banners raff.I think you are being caught out here. Which teams has your nephew played lately?
 
MidnightRoker said:
Hey, I said give me a few minutes, cool your jets.

Firstly, I’m conflicted about whether it should have been allowed or not. Because a sovereign wealth fund doesn’t inherently mean state ownership. For example if a country’s state pension fund bought a stake in a club purely intending to see a return would that be state interference? No, because they are ran by fund managers looking for monetary value not political value. The issue with the Saudi fund is that it’s impossible to know if that separation is really in place as the Premier League obviously can’t ever know for sure. But the fact is, that legally on paper the Saudi state DON’T own Newcastle, and technicalities like that are what’s important in business transactions not optics or assumptions about the practice of such an arrangement. Sovereign wealth funds owning clubs should have been banned in the rules of the league to avoid situations like this with grey areas of ownership, but it’s too late now, the horse has bolted and it’s the league’s fault (unless Boris made them allow it to complete).

As for the moral aspect, that’s an incredibly difficult subject and too many on both sides are oversimplifying the situation. Firstly I’ll qualify that I’m fully against the homophobia, human rights abuses, second class status of women and all other aspects of Saudi life that we in the UK find reprehensible by our standards. But therein lies the problem, they are OUR standards. What do we call it when we push our beliefs ideals and standards on another sovereign nation? Colonialism? Xenophobia? Think about it from the other perspective, have you read any scare stories about establishing Sharia law in areas of the UK, how did you feel about that? I would prefer to see full democracy, secularism and robust human rights in every country in the world, but does that make me a globalist? Another dirty word. Fact is, you should leave sovereign counties to do their own thing, if they want to make their country an awful repressive place to live, that’s their problem and we should’ve learned by now that interfering just causes huge problems (Afghanistan anyone?). Vote with your wallet if you don’t want to contribute to a regime that does things you don’t like, but getting high and mighty over other people who give money to a UK ally, just puts you on shaky ground and wide open to accusations of hypocrisy if you are inconsistent (like for example if you buy something made in China where they have concentration camps, and who are ostensibly a UK adversary).

As for Yemen, that seems to be a stick used to beat Newcastle fans with, but many (on both sides) don’t seem to actually know what is happening there. Sunderland fans who act like it’s a Russia Ukraine situation are wrong, but Newcastle fans that defend it while thinking the same are actually MORE wrong. It isn’t one Sovereign nation attacking another, it is a coalition headed by SA attempting to put down a civil war in Yemen at the invitation of the legitimate Yemeni government as recognised by the UN Security Council (of which the UK is a permanent member) so on the one side you have the Saudis and a large coalition of various countries that are generally considered (comparatively) more moderate westernised Muslim nations, backed and armed by UK US and various European allies. And on the other side you have the Houthi rebels who are the stereotypical ‘death to the west’ Islamic extremists, backed by Iran, Syria and rumour has it North Korea. Now there’s a discussion to be had that the collateral damage is unacceptable and SA bombing tactics are unethical, but they are using bombs we sell them, so when you talk about Yemeni kids dying should that criticism be directed at football fans rather than politicians? Did we not do the same in Iraq and Afghanistan? I’m from an armed forces family, my brother used to attach bombs to jets at camp Bastion and I’m sure everyone on here knows at least someone who has done a tour or two, so are we throwing stones in glass house by complaining about UK bombs dropped by UK allies?

I know it’s a bitter pill to swallow and the takeover should never have happened as politics and football don’t mix well, but the fact is that if you support the Houthi rebels against the UN rubber stamped SA intervention then you support a group whose slogan is:

“God is the greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Cursed be the Jews, Victory to Islam".

If you’ve accidentally stood up for that group then maybe, just maybe you’ve let football tribalism affect your judgement, because I honestly don’t believe either Newcastle fans or Sunderland fans support Islamic fundamentalism. At least not the ones in my family or friends.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Just when I thought @The Fish was the most boring mag on here
 
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Reubens tasche said:
Don’t know could be Liverpool, seaham, St. Peter’s, the uni or Rome, anywhere alone
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I never said i was from Liverpool (or Rotterdam), I said I support them because of grandparents, I made it clear my roots are in Sunderland
Skylon said:
Don't know anyone who calls that area St Peters or banners raff.I think you are being caught out here. Which teams has your nephew played lately?
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it’s St. Peter’s riverside! That’s literally what that area is called! Seriously, how determined are you to see everyone you disagree with as a mag?! Bonner’s Raff isn’t a place you muppet, it’s a building, it’s the big riverside flats on the north side under the bridge, the white and purple one. It used to have some young Sunderland players living there too apparently though I only met one.
 
Aaah, the old bonnersfield building.Thats what sunderland people call it.Around the dame dot area . What age group does your imaginary nephew play for?
 
Skylon said:
Aaah, the old bonnersfield building.Thats what sunderland people call it.Around the dame dot area . What age group does your imaginary nephew play for?
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I’m not telling you that, because obviously that narrows it down too much. He’s on the younger side though so quality of the games isn’t up to much yet. I go see his cousin play more often at Newcastle because he’s older and the matches are more competitive, though he was also at Sunderland about 4 years ago. Why are you so interested anyway?
Bears Beets said:
Hang on, this is @honest mag

His imaginary grandson played for our academy.

This idiot’s imaginary nephew plays for our academy

And there we have it, the outing is complete.
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That sounds like the logic of a crazy person. You do know there’s dozens and dozens of kids at the academy right? Someone has to be related to them. You’re acting like it’s something rare, rather than just the main reason I said I created an account here.
 
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Mackem2017 said:
Not sure what’s worse the embarrassing craic or the tw8ts he’s tagged in for attention

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They only whined on about it as they didn't get invited to the ESL. If they had it would have been all brilliant & defend & deflect. They will probably get an invite next time. I hope they do fuck off into it tbh.
 
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