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Prospective England openers

Jack Torrance said:
Crawley done okay since he got back in side, Lawrence was okay in Windies. They won’t be dropped
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Lawrence won’t score runs consistently at test level

He gets out early too often as he plays across the line
Voice of fair play said:
Not sure how you can be so confident of your last statement tbh.

As massive step up to test cricket from county cricket imo,as recent players in the last few years trying to make that transition have struggled and proved imo.

We simply don’t know if the talented batsman currently in county cricket can make the step up?
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My point being there is talent in England, especially in the middle order

We need to get out of this mentality of just continuing to pick players who aren’t scoring runs

We give them far too long, you wouldn’t keep picking a bowler who took no wickets

There will be players in England who do well in convinced

Selection needs to be better and more ruthless

I think pope is a talented lad but it got to the stage where he just gets picked in every single squad no matter how bad he was
 
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The Rat said:
Lawrence won’t score runs consistently at test level

He gets out early too often as he plays across the line


My point being there is talent in England, especially in the middle order

We need to get out of this mentality of just continuing to pick players who aren’t scoring runs

We give them far too long, you wouldn’t keep picking a bowler who took no wickets

There will be players in England who do well in convinced

Selection needs to be better and more ruthless

I think pope is a talented lad but it got to the stage where he just gets picked in every single squad no matter how bad he was
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Personally I think it’s really hard to make the step up and feel that’s been proven in recent years.

It’s easy saying selection should be better, but batting wise, can’t remember also in recent years any stand out good batsman who hasn’t been selected?

In the main the best batsman have been picked and simply not made the step up, Pope been the clear example.

Also it clearly doesn’t help putting new players selected in the deep end at 3 for example, that’s why Root should bat there and let new players find their feet.

If like you say there is talented players in the middle order waiting to be picked that’s where they should bat at!
 
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Voice of fair play said:
Personally I think it’s really hard to make the step up and feel that’s been proven in recent years.

It’s easy saying selection should be better, but batting wise, can’t remember also in recent years any stand out good batsman who hasn’t been selected?

In the main the best batsman have been picked and simply not made the step up, Pope been the clear example.

Also it clearly doesn’t help putting new players selected in the deep end at 3 for example that’s why Root should bat there and let new players find their feet.

If like you say there is talented players in the middle order waiting to be picked that’s where they should bat at!
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Root should bat 4 like

We constantly move our best players and their form suffers root, bairstow, Ali and stokes

Root, 4, stokes 6 and bairstow 7 with gloves is an absolute no brainer for me

Try someone new like Brook at 5 and a proper number 3 at 3

You have to try stuff just picking the same players averaging under 30 don’t work

I’m not saying it’s nailed on but I refuse to believe that there aren’t lads who will do better

Just my view
 
The Rat said:
Root should bat 4 like

We constantly move our best players and their form suffers root, bairstow, Ali and stokes

Root, 4, stokes 6 and bairstow 7 with gloves is an absolute no brainer for me

Try someone new like Brook at 5 and a proper number 3 at 3

You have to try stuff just picking the same players averaging under 30 don’t work

I’m not saying it’s nailed on but I refuse to believe that there aren’t lads who will do better

Just my view
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It’s a difficult balance mind, Vaughan averaged 31 after 16 tests
 
The Rat said:
Root should bat 4 like

We constantly move our best players and their form suffers root, bairstow, Ali and stokes

Root, 4, stokes 6 and bairstow 7 with gloves is an absolute no brainer for me

Try someone new like Brook at 5 and a proper number 3 at 3

You have to try stuff just picking the same players averaging under 30 don’t work

I’m not saying it’s nailed on but I refuse to believe that there aren’t lads who will do better

Just my view
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So who is the proper number 3 then?

Putting new players right in at the deep end rarely works and can’t think of any who have succeeded since Trott despite many many tried.

Personally just my view but find it unfair and counter productive throwing new players in at 3 when far better and far more experienced players bat lower down.
 
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Voice of fair play said:
So who is the proper number 3 then?

Putting new players right in at the deep end rarely works and can’t think of any who have succeeded since Trott despite many many tried.

Personally just my view but find it unfair and counter productive throwing new players in at 3 when far better and far more experienced players bat lower down.
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A player who has batted number 3 his whole life

Its not like I’m suggesting putting a 21 year old at 3 or someit

If it’s your batting position it’s not unfair is it

We picked pope and Lawrence middle order like
chunkylover53 said:
Pope has a couple of technical things he needs to sort, but I think he will come good
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Well he needs to do that in county cricket
 
The Rat said:
A player who has batted number 3 his whole life

Its not like I’m suggesting putting a 21 year old at 3 or someit

If it’s your batting position it’s not unfair is it

We picked pope and Lawrence middle order like


Well he needs to do that in county cricket
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But surely they have to be good enough?

You have said yourself many a time that batting 3 is hard in test cricket and we should not risk Root there, so surely we cannot just put anybody there just because they have batted there all their life, we have to have someone good enough, and not sure we have!
 
Voice of fair play said:
But surely they have to be good enough?

You have said yourself many a time that batting 3 is hard in test cricket and we should not risk Root there, so surely we cannot just put anybody there just because they have batted there all their life, we have to have someone good enough, and not sure we have!
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Root averages over 10 less there. It hasn’t worked like

Go around in circles here but I hope he bats 4 personally it’s best for the team

We have a couple of world class players and the whole team should be based around getting the very very most from them
 
The Rat said:
Root averages over 10 less there. It hasn’t worked like

Go around in circles here but I hope he bats 4 personally it’s best for the team

We have a couple of world class players and the whole team should be based around getting the very very most from them
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Think we will have to agree to disagree, simply don’t like the fact a new player making his debut has to be put in a more difficult position than your best player!

Just don’t agree with that concept full stop never have.

There is also a very good argument that Root is such a accomplished brilliant test player currently that he is more than capable of improving his average at 3 particularly as he has just scored 2 hundreds there in his last series!
 
Voice of fair play said:
Think we will have to agree to disagree, simply don’t like the fact a new player making his debut has to be put in a more difficult position than your best player!

Just don’t agree with that concept full stop never have.

There is also a very good argument that Root is such a accomplished brilliant test player currently that he is more than capable of improving his average at 3 particularly as he has just scored 2 hundreds there in his last series!
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But if a player is a top order batsman in the county championship and has played there all his career

Why would you bat him 5 or 6? It’s a totally different role

You wouldn’t put an opener there would you?

He’s getting picked because he scores runs against the new ball
 
The Rat said:
Just if you look at someone like Brook scoring 100 after 100, young player and we just pick Lawrence and pope again not sure that sends the right message
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I get what you mean, but Stokes has just said he wants selfless players and there was more than one occasion this winter that Lawrence batted for the team. So it would send out the wrong message to drop him! Difficult one for sure to get the balance right between giving people a fair opportunity and moving on, even if temporary.
 
mikemanc said:
I get what you mean, but Stokes has just said he wants selfless players and there was more than one occasion this winter that Lawrence batted for the team. So it would send out the wrong message to drop him! Difficult one for sure to get the balance right between giving people a fair opportunity and moving on, even if temporary.
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Yeah he did I just don’t think he will score runs consistently
 
rentaghost said:
I think he will pick Lees and Crawley for the first test but Crawley is a lucky lad. I don’t think he has done enough but he will get another chance I think particularly with Key involved.
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I think he should be in the team but at 6...but then you look at the other options for 3 (Bracey, Duckett and Bohannon) and I think right now they are better players and Root then gets to bat at 4 with Bairstow and Stokes to come.
Jack Torrance said:
Crawley done okay since he got back in side, Lawrence was okay in Windies. They won’t be dropped
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Lawrence is in a race to be fit as tore his hamstring
 
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