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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Georgewhitt said:
Agree mate.
So our options are either get involved now, and risk nuclear war, or, get involved later and risk nuclear war, or, sit and watch innocent people die.

Personally, I'm f***ing glad that's above my pay grade.

At the end of WW2, Churchill was in favour of carrying on into Russia, to stop what he saw as the inevitable growth of Stalinism throughout Eastern Europe, but was a lone voice.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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Operation Unthinkable was a typical crackpot Churchill scheme - had he gone through with it Soviets would have stomped all over the western allies, and it would have been a question of how far west could the Soviets go before we could rustle up a few more nukes
 
Morse said:
That’s fine, the US don’t have to get involved if they don’t want to. It’s all a very long way from America.

However, Ukraine is approximately 950 miles from the U.K. It’s a European country that’s under attack and suffering Russian war crimes, and Putin has threatened to nuke Finland and Sweden.

While I’m not trying to directly make a comparison with Hitler, it’s hard to ignore the similarities.
When he’s managed to negotiate with Ukraine, which will undoubtedly mean he stops the killing if the Ukrainians give up various freedoms, then he’ll see that as a victory and move on to his next targets.

Belarus are already pro-Russian, so he’ll probably go after Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and so on.

He might even decide Finland and Sweden are a priority before they have a chance to join NATO…
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If he goes after Finland conventionally they will get a right hammering from the very well organised & motivated Finns (even without international support) on their own turf which is relatively easy to defend. In WW2 despite massive superiority of men, equipment and aircraft the Russian losses compared to the Finns were enormous in the Winter & Continuation wars. Although the Russians sort of won getting slightly less than 10% of disputed border territory it came at a disastrous price. Finland also now have much better relations with Sweden then they did in WW2 so much more likely to gain support from their neighbours who would be the next domino in line.
 
Scotty said:
Operation Unthinkable was a typical crackpot Churchill scheme - had he gone through with it Soviets would have stomped all over the western allies, and it would have been a question of how far west could the Soviets go before we could rustle up a few more nukes
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Your opinion mate. Depends which historians and strategists you read or choose to believe. No way of knowing really what the outcome would have been.
Some of what you call "typical crackpot Churchill schemes" did actually work, as evidenced by the allied victory.
 
Scotty said:
Operation Unthinkable was a typical crackpot Churchill scheme - had he gone through with it Soviets would have stomped all over the western allies, and it would have been a question of how far west could the Soviets go before we could rustle up a few more nukes
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I'm not sure about the outcome but the Americans had had enough and a presidential election was coming up so they wouldn't go as it would cost more American lives. They even held back on their approach to Berlin because they knew it was over so left Berlin to the Russians. The RAF couldn't do it alone even though when the Russians had come across Dresden they must have been in shock and awe at what the RAF could do deep into Germany.
 
Georgewhitt said:
Your opinion mate. Depends which historians and strategists you read or choose to believe. No way of knowing really what the outcome would have been.
Some of what you call "typical crackpot Churchill schemes" did actually work, as evidenced by the allied victory.
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i'm struggling to actually think of any of Churchill's actual schemes that did work

Dieppe - no
Soft Underbelly - no
Greek diversion - no

and thats WW2

and can you cite any historians and strategists that claim Unthinkable was a viable scheme - cos the Order of Battle of the Western Allies and the Soviets in 1945 would lead me to believe the odds for the WA were'nt good

I''ve said it before on this thread - by late 44 / 45 the Soviets were the undisputed masters of the combined arms offensive
 
Georgewhitt said:
Your opinion mate. Depends which historians and strategists you read or choose to believe. No way of knowing really what the outcome would have been.
Some of what you call "typical crackpot Churchill schemes" did actually work, as evidenced by the allied victory.
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In WW1 he lobbied for sending more troops on to the Eastern Front in support of the Russian rather then sending them into the trenches in France where the front was in deadlock. He did have some good ideas as a war leader.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
I'm not sure about the outcome but the Americans had had enough and a presidential election was coming up so they wouldn't go as it would cost more American lives. They even held back on their approach to Berlin because they knew it was over so left Berlin to the Russians. The RAF couldn't do it alone even though when the Russians had come across Dresden they must have been in shock and awe at what the RAF could do deep into Germany.
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Strong evidence that a combined allied force could have succeeded, but as you say mate, the political will from The States just wasn't there.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
I'm not sure about the outcome but the Americans had had enough and a presidential election was coming up so they wouldn't go as it would cost more American lives. They even held back on their approach to Berlin because they knew it was over so left Berlin to the Russians. The RAF couldn't do it alone even though when the Russians had come across Dresden they must have been in shock and awe at what the RAF could do deep into Germany.
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Dresden was a combined RAF / USAAF raid - we just get all the bad publicity for it

;)

and you're right about the allied will to fight on - how could you sell something like Unthinkable to the western public - 'i know we've been singing the praises of Uncle Joe, but really he's a bit of a shit - so we want to start a new fight with him'
 
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