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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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The one plus side about Russians getting closer to the cities is hopefully it will stop the indiscriminate bombing.

Putin probably doesn’t give a fuck about his troops lives but strategically it makes no sense for him to bomb the soldiers he needs to hold the territory
 
coyneeee said:
It's like why did Hitler have to be stopped? Both have the same ideologies.

It's accepted at this point a modern-era Soviet Union was planned at the start of the COVID19 pandemic which bought him alot of time to think it out. The only people allowed in his circle were his generals, his own political advisers even weren't allowed in.

The United Russia party and the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party are pretty much the exact same with the exact same policies, exact same leadership and exact same ideology. He is literally Hitler.
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Putin isn't a Soviet. His main driver isn't history of the USSR, its Tsarist Russia and also very inspired by the history and military expansion of the Orthodox Church. Good article here

You must be logged on to see external links

I said this really early on but Empires do what empires do. At the heart of the concept is the idea that a certain central core or ideology is destined for greatness and is superior, and that the best good for humanity will come from its dominance. Diversity, autonomy and sovereignty of people is second to the power of whatever mandate the Empire claims for itself. That means Empires always subjugate and always expand. By definition they believe themselves to be centre of the universe.

So you're wrong in saying that ideologically Russia are like the Nazis, they're really not.

But as Empires, they are. But that is *all empires*. The experience of the Ukraine now is an insight into the experience of any nation with a concept of its own identity being coerced/forced/ into accepting the imperial claims of its conqueror.
 
Cow said:
Surely trying to argue that there’s another side to this is absolutely key? Isn’t that a technique in psychology to get into the minds of ‘the enemy’ to try and predict the next moves? In this case, it also helps break down the ear/west stereotype that we’ve had ingrained in us by western propaganda for as long as we can remember.
Personally, learning about all aspects of this is brilliant, not cherry picking or getting sucked into the popularist rhetoric of good and bad provides a different perspective on things and why things are happening.
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It's always good to get both sides of any argument, you won't find that on the Internet though. It's also baffling that random people debate experts (I am in no way way proclaiming to be one). I also don't think your poorly articulated post indicates you need to understand and dissect 'Western propaganda' unfortunately though. There is no history, or academia whatsoever to give credence to Putin's current war. If you're looking for a balanced argument for it, there isn't one, and you're sick in the head.
 
Fcomp said:
Although not banned in the UK, the television feed is via satellite from Luxembourg and the feed has been cut due to the EU ban requiring Luxembourg to stop transmission.
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Luxembourg is an interesting country, never quite worked out its significance but does keep cropping up, has it got special status of some kind?
 
MonkeyLove said:
The one plus side about Russians getting closer to the cities is hopefully it will stop the indiscriminate bombing.

Putin probably doesn’t give a fuck about his troops lives but strategically it makes no sense for him to bomb the soldiers he needs to hold the territory
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true but the danger is maybe that they will decide not to enter cities - where the enemy is well trained , in position and with trap set ready to annihilate them

Putin may decide to do what Hitler did to Warsaw and simply raze it to the ground .
He actually has previous on this in Grozny - where the Chechens were too good at guerrilla war and he resorted to bombing hell out of them

NOT sure he could get away with it though - given that every landed missile is being recorded on a smartphone
 
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Cow said:
Surely trying to argue that there’s another side to this is absolutely key? Isn’t that a technique in psychology to get into the minds of ‘the enemy’ to try and predict the next moves? In this case, it also helps break down the ear/west stereotype that we’ve had ingrained in us by western propaganda for as long as we can remember.
Personally, learning about all aspects of this is brilliant, not cherry picking or getting sucked into the popularist rhetoric of good and bad provides a different perspective on things and why things are happening.
Click to expand...
To play Total Devils Advocate

And to clarify, no, I'm not saying Brexit is the same as Russia invading the Ukraine etc, or anything of the sort

But look at Brexit. Look at how many British people were terrified by the EU because they perceived it as somehow being a threat to their nations sovereignty, on the basis of nothing. It was enough that it was this existential abstract imposition to make people talk in terms of it as an Imperial menace.

Whereas Russia- NATO *does exist* to be a threat to an expansionist Russia. A threat with literal nuclear weapons, the most powerful combined military in human history etc. To limit any sense of Russian sovereignty which exceeds the boundaries imposed at the end of the Cold War. Those nations have said- we *will* impose on your sovereignty. And if you try and expand- we'll all have you. This coming from multiple nations involved in invading the sovereign nations of others in the past two decades.

Again this *in no way* is a justification of Putin, who is a despot, or any of his actions.

But had Russia been led by someone who wasn't, who wasn't a warmonger or anti democratic but simply someone who on account of vying from a different culture didn't share Western values or the ideals of NATO- there would still be an imposition on the soverignty of a Russia that had any ambitions thst weren't sponsored by the US and NATO.
 
sonson said:
Putin isn't a Soviet. His main driver isn't history of the USSR, its Tsarist Russia and also very inspired by the history and military expansion of the Orthodox Church. Good article here

You must be logged on to see external links

I said this really early on but Empires do what empires do. At the heart of the concept is the idea that a certain central core or ideology is destined for greatness and is superior, and that the best good for humanity will come from its dominance. Diversity, autonomy and sovereignty of people is second to the power of whatever mandate the Empire claims for itself. That means Empires always subjugate and always expand. By definition they believe themselves to be centre of the universe.

So you're wrong in saying that ideologically Russia are like the Nazis, they're really not.

But as Empires, they are. But that is *all empires*. The experience of the Ukraine now is an insight into the experience of any nation with a concept of its own identity being coerced/forced/ into accepting the imperial claims of its conqueror.
Click to expand...

Apparently when he looks in the mirror he sees Mother Russia

Lets hope he isn't going a bit Norman Bates on us ....
 
Slim999 said:
true but the danger is maybe that they will decide not to enter cities - where the enemy is well trained , in position and with trap set ready to annihilate them

Putin may decide to do what Hitler did to Warsaw and simply raze it to the ground .
He actually has previous on this in Grozny - where the Chechens were too good at guerrilla war and he resorted to bombing hell out of them

NOT sure he could get away with it though - given that every landed missile is being recorded on a smartphone
Click to expand...

Possible. But it would be very much a scorched Earth policy which doesn’t necessarily benefit him in Ukraine.
 
sonson said:
Putin isn't a Soviet. His main driver isn't history of the USSR, its Tsarist Russia and also very inspired by the history and military expansion of the Orthodox Church. Good article here

You must be logged on to see external links

I said this really early on but Empires do what empires do. At the heart of the concept is the idea that a certain central core or ideology is destined for greatness and is superior, and that the best good for humanity will come from its dominance. Diversity, autonomy and sovereignty of people is second to the power of whatever mandate the Empire claims for itself. That means Empires always subjugate and always expand. By definition they believe themselves to be centre of the universe.

So you're wrong in saying that ideologically Russia are like the Nazis, they're really not.

But as Empires, they are. But that is *all empires*. The experience of the Ukraine now is an insight into the experience of any nation with a concept of its own identity being coerced/forced/ into accepting the imperial claims of its conqueror.
Click to expand...

Absolutely none of that is true and the article is just mad ramblings of someone with more time than Putin had when he was wanking over the USSR.

Ukraine is very predominant Eastern Orthodox Church, the bishops and churches in Ukraine, have Putin as their head of state
The chain of command goes Ukrainian Worshipper -> Ukrainian Bishop -> Russian Patriarch -> Russian Head of State.

There's nothing to dominate because their identity is already imprinted into Eastern Orthodox, Ukraine is just an independent state with the same religious beliefs.

It's like saying Iran would want to dominate Lebanon for example, which is untrue as they both follow Shia Muslim.
 
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