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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Hugh Gains said:
Why you have to get personal?

You're calling me one dimensional, you're out here telling me there's systematic killing of civilians going on and I don't see that at all.

Are civilians caught up and unfortunately being killed? Yes. Is it systematic? No.

You must be logged on to see media items

Oh look RT saying Ukrainians are killing civilians. Must be true!
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In fairness, there are several reports from sources (the UN, Red Cross, the British journalist who witnessed it with his own eyes etc) that are far more reputable and balanced than Russia Today that are talking about the civilian deaths.

To the point where it is completely undeniable that it is happening in large numbers and that it is happening on a war crime sort of level.
 
brandon said:
To be fair the article is only an opinion piece in any case.

The organisation claim to be ‘non-partisan’ (they all say that). According to Wikipedia they’re an American neo-Conservative think tank with more than a passing penchant for warhawking (I had to Google that phrase too :lol: although I had a fair idea).

The guys opinion was probably worth no more than anyone on here in reality.
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Look here:
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for the full Wikipedia article.
 
sonson said:
Must admit I missed that bit in my Masters, about who the goodies abd baddies are. And that included being taught by Sir Ian Kershaw on the Nazis for a semester. He said it serves no purpose saying that historical figures, regimes etc are evil or monsters. It tells you nothing about what they did/do. You look at *what* they did, *what* they believe and you will naturally apply your own morality anyway . Kershaw wrote the seminal biography of Hitler but he dosent once say in however many thousand pages that Hitler was evil, because he dosent need to. If you read about all he did and don't come to that conclusion yourself, you never will, theres no helping someone there.

But hey, I'm not sure if he had two degrees like you.

Re the US- existed for less than 250 years, fought in 102 wars, not included the wars against the people they took the land from in the first place, currently involved in 3 in Yemen, Somalia and Syria. I don't need to argue they're addicted to war.

I just explained an outlook from two different perspectives ie non western ones. It is a fact that Russia and China have a different perspective on their imperialism than we do, just as it is a fact that most of the territories of the British Empire has a different perspective on that than the British or the subjects of Rome did to the Romans etc.

The absence of me saying afterwards "and therefore they're evil" dosen"t mean I think they're good. Although for what irs worth I'm morally opposed to all imperialism, and I've said that dozens of times on here. On this thread I've condemned Russia multiple times.

But rather than establishing that context, you took *one post* as am opportunity to take offence, believe that my explanation if a historical outlook was the same as my moral stance, and to try and beat me over the head with your two degrees.

Which just goes to show you can have two degrees and still be completely ignorant I suppose.
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Bit late at night for a full reply to this but did Sir Ian host some lectures you attended? Did you go to Sheffield University by any chance? I've attended many lectures by him too (not at Sheffield), my first dissertation was actually on the domestic 'success' of pre war Germany 1933-39.

There are always two sides to a story but in this case there isn't, Putin is pure evil, the same as Hitler was. I literally wrote a thesis (aided by a then simply known as Ian Kershaw) on Hitler's pre war 'achievements' but it was heavily caveated by the fact they relied on war and evil. History is written by the victors but it is currently being written by reality and some insanely brave Ukrainians.

Oh and it's a Master's degree, just FYI for your CV.
 
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UpTheDuff said:
Sorry, who cares. All that matters now is Russia have, without provocation, invaded an independent sovereign nation and are bombing civilians and hospitals and have to be stopped.
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Serious question here, why do they have to be stopped? Please, no insult in reply, given all the information on this thread and certainly in @sonson post, why do Russia need to be stopped?
sonson said:
I dropped my measly 1 (one) degree.
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Thickheed:lol: cracking post about Russia/China as well.

Guess that’s the thing a lot of us don’t realise about different cultures, we’re not as important to other folk as we think we are. Completely agree about America as well, imo, worse than Russia.
 
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Cow said:
Serious question here, why do they have to be stopped? Please, no insult in reply, given all the information on this thread and certainly in @sonson post, why do Russia need to be stopped?
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It's like why did Hitler have to be stopped? Both have the same ideologies.

It's accepted at this point a modern-era Soviet Union was planned at the start of the COVID19 pandemic which bought him alot of time to think it out. The only people allowed in his circle were his generals, his own political advisers even weren't allowed in.

The United Russia party and the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party are pretty much the exact same with the exact same policies, exact same leadership and exact same ideology. He is literally Hitler.
 
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Hbk69 said:
Bit late at night for a full reply to this but did Sir Ian host some lectures you attended? Did you go to Sheffield University by any chance? I've attended many lectures by him too (not at Sheffield), my first dissertation was actually on the domestic 'success' of pre war Germany 1933-39.

There are always two sides to a story but in this case there isn't, Putin is pure evil, the same as Hitler was. I literally wrote a thesis (aided by a then simply known as Ian Kershaw) on Hitler's pre war 'achievements' but it was heavily caveated by the fact they relied on war and evil. History is written by the victors but it is currently being written by reality and some insanely brave Ukrainians.
Click to expand...
Didn't go to Sheffield, went to Edinburgh, but the Uni I went to gave us a term to study elsewhere with another partnered school if we wanted, there were a few options but it was a no brainer to do his course, was lectures and tutorials. Sheffield had been my second choice because of him anyway so worked out well.

But apologies to all for this aside, don't want to monopolise important thread.
 
sonson said:
Didn't go to Sheffield, went to Edinburgh, but the Uni I went to gave us a term to study elsewhere with another partnered school if we wanted, there were a few options but it was a no brainer to do his course, was lectures and tutorials. Sheffield had been my second choice because of him anyway so worked out well.

But apologies to all for this aside, don't want to monopolise important thread.
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You’re posting a lot of interesting stuff, please keep it coming
 
sonson said:
Must admit I missed that bit in my Masters, about who the goodies abd baddies are. And that included being taught by Sir Ian Kershaw on the Nazis for a semester. He said it serves no purpose saying that historical figures, regimes etc are evil or monsters. It tells you nothing about what they did/do. You look at *what* they did, *what* they believe and you will naturally apply your own morality anyway . Kershaw wrote the seminal biography of Hitler but he dosent once say in however many thousand pages that Hitler was evil, because he dosent need to. If you read about all he did and don't come to that conclusion yourself, you never will, theres no helping someone there.

But hey, I'm not sure if he had two degrees like you.

Re the US- existed for less than 250 years, fought in 102 wars, not included the wars against the people they took the land from in the first place, currently involved in 3 in Yemen, Somalia and Syria. I don't need to argue they're addicted to war.

I just explained an outlook from two different perspectives ie non western ones. It is a fact that Russia and China have a different perspective on their imperialism than we do, just as it is a fact that most of the territories of the British Empire has a different perspective on that than the British or the subjects of Rome did to the Romans etc.

The absence of me saying afterwards "and therefore they're evil" dosen"t mean I think they're good. Although for what irs worth I'm morally opposed to all imperialism, and I've said that dozens of times on here. On this thread I've condemned Russia multiple times.

But rather than establishing that context, you took *one post* as am opportunity to take offence, believe that my explanation if a historical outlook was the same as my moral stance, and to try and beat me over the head with your two degrees.

Which just goes to show you can have two degrees and still be completely ignorant I suppose.
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Cracking post.

Careful though, you'll go down as being part of the conspiracy that the board is secretly infiltrated by the CCP!
 
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sonson said:
Didn't go to Sheffield, went to Edinburgh, but the Uni I went to gave us a term to study elsewhere with another partnered school if we wanted, there were a few options but it was a no brainer to do his course, was lectures and tutorials. Sheffield had been my second choice because of him anyway so worked out well.

But apologies to all for this aside, don't want to monopolise important thread.
Click to expand...
Very well said, also very well done for attaining a Master's without a prior degree, didn't know that was possible. Also don't justify evil, ever. Even if you know a little (or for argument's sake a lot about history), trying to argue there's another side to this atrocity is vile. If you didn't mean that, my apologies.
 
coyneeee said:
It's like why did Hitler have to be stopped? Both have the same ideologies.

It's accepted at this point a modern-era Soviet Union was planned at the start of the COVID19 pandemic which bought him alot of time to think it out. The only people allowed in his circle were his generals, his own political advisers even weren't allowed in.

The United Russia party and the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party are pretty much the exact same with the exact same policies, exact same leadership and exact same ideology. He is literally Hitler.
Click to expand...

I think you are literally daft and are proof of the saying that "a little learning is a dangerous thing".

Perhaps you could post links to the respective programmes of the NSDAP and United Russia so we call all compare them.
 
UpTheDuff said:
Sorry, who cares. All that matters now is Russia have, without provocation, invaded an independent sovereign nation and are bombing civilians and hospitals and have to be stopped.
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What I would like to know is how come in all recent conflicts a hospital seems to get hit. Is there some sort of rhyme or reason behind this or is it just clumsiness
 
Hbk69 said:
Very well said, also very well done for attaining a Master's without a prior degree, didn't know that was possible. Also don't justify evil, ever. Even if you know a little (or for argument's sake a lot about history), trying to argue there's another side to this atrocity is vile. If you didn't mean that, my apologies.
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Surely trying to argue that there’s another side to this is absolutely key? Isn’t that a technique in psychology to get into the minds of ‘the enemy’ to try and predict the next moves? In this case, it also helps break down the ear/west stereotype that we’ve had ingrained in us by western propaganda for as long as we can remember.
Personally, learning about all aspects of this is brilliant, not cherry picking or getting sucked into the popularist rhetoric of good and bad provides a different perspective on things and why things are happening.
 
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