• The forums will be unavailable for a few hours on Saturday 6th June, when they do return they will initially be in a degraded state with some features missing, but normal posting/reading will be possible. The main website will not be affected by these updates.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.
    Some other features of the forum are also currently disabled.

Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

Status
Not open for further replies.

parm said:
i urge the smb over the coming months to take the claims of the British MSM with a big dose of salt , they lied about iraq , afghan , syria , libya and they will lie again , get your information from all sides and make your own judgement
Click to expand...
Vey good point. I find myself being somewhat cynical of pretty much everything we are told these days after years of reading history books, reading reports on the disclosure of cabinet papers and watching the news and then seeing something entirely different coming out years later. The particular incumbent of No. 10 seems even more untrustworthy than most we`ve had over the years. I therefore try to read as widely as I can to try to get as big a perspective as possible.
 
Wrenthorpe Mackem said:
It really isn't difficult to understand. NATO is a military organisation that exists to defend its members. Ukraine isn't part of it. Putin knows this. Putin hasn't and won't attack a NATO member. He knows the consequences. Russia is a bully and in wrong but it's a nuclear armed power. There are other things we can do as mentioned before that would hurt Russia. For some reason you haven't mentioned that here.

If troops get sent now to Ukraine by the West then, as previously mentioned, there is real risk of this escalating into a world war and nuclear exchange. Not sure how hundreds of millions of dead and a destroyed planet helps Ukraine and its people? Can you respond to me on this point please?

Thank Christ you're not in power. I'd be extremely worried if you were. I'd be watching those 'protect and survive' videos thats for sure.
Click to expand...

You said you’d risk nuclear war to defend Estonia, but not Ukraine. I would risk it to defend both. That is literally the only difference here but you’re acting as if you’re somehow better than me.
 
mickb2112 said:
Vey good point. I find myself being somewhat cynical of pretty much everything we are told these days after years of reading history books, reading reports on the disclosure of cabinet papers and watching the news and then seeing something entirely different coming out years later. The particular incumbent of No. 10 seems even more untrustworthy than most we`ve had over the years. I therefore try to read as widely as I can to try to get as big a perspective as possible.
Click to expand...
Can we trust the Sec Gen of the United Nations?

"I must say, President Putin: In the name of humanity bring your troops back to Russia. In the name of humanity do not allow to start in Europe what could be the worst war since the beginning of the century, with consequences not only devastating for Ukraine, not only tragic for the Russian Federation, but with an impact we cannot even foresee in relation to the consequences for the global economy in a moment when we are emerging from the COVID [pandemic] and so many developing countries absolutely need to have space for the recovery which would be very, very difficult, with the high prices of oil, with the end of exports of wheat from Ukraine, and with the rising interest rates caused by instability in international markets.

This conflict must stop - now. Thank you very much."
 
87 Others said:
That's what I'm getting at.

Are those at that meeting as mad as he is?

I'd presumed it would be one of them who would be next in line
Click to expand...
Depends which group they come from. You’d imagine it would be someone from Sobchack/Putins circle but who really knows who’s in play.

If Putin was toppled then you’d think Medvedev etc would go with him. But who’s knows, that country is f***ing nuts :lol:

*Thats is you meant Putin btw. Didn’t catch it all, browser crashed!
 
zinedine said:
The goons and trolls that constantly moan about brexit. How shit this country is and how vile it's electorate is for voting in a Tory government. Now really do have something to piss moan and worry about.
Click to expand...
For some it will be secondary, for there are a sub species that will always love war at any level :(
 
Last edited:
MackemBob said:
Oh but it does.

Economically stronger. It pushes them into second place globally on grain production. As well as all of ukraine uranium and other rare earth metals. It gives putin huge leverage.
Click to expand...
As well as inheriting there basket case economy. Russias economy, despite its oil and gas ang grain income, is on the bones of its arse. If anything it weakens them financially and stretches their military hugely. Defending a border that large is a huge ask on top of everything else.
 
Scotty said:
relevance??
Click to expand...
Well if public transcripts of the discussions between Putin and Biden earlier this month are to be believed then Ukraine joining NATO remains on the table, fair enough you might say, France or Germany (Nord Stream 2) may veto it but NATO officials and Ukraine have reiterated the open door policy still applies...well if the alternative is appeasement (which has been mentioned on this thread) indeed a high ranking Estonian parliamentarian has also stated that walking back Ukraine's right to join NATO would be tantamount to Britain's appeasement of Hitler in 1938 - that's all well and good but leaders (and in particular American leaders) who argue Ukraine has every right to join should pause to reflect on their own country's own very long history of complete opposition of outside meddling in the Western Hemisphere - this position was first expressed in the 1823 and it was on full display in the violent US reaction to Fidel Castro's pivot toward the Soviet Union after the revolution in '58.

This is why I mentioned it because back then US President Eisenhower declared that 'Cuba has been handed over to the Soviet Union as an instrument with which to undermine our position in Latin America and the World' - the Bay of Pigs was the absolute fiasco planned by the CIA which lit the fuse for the Cuban Missile Crisis - point being countries cannot always simply choose their military alliances because such choices often have implications and consequences for their neighbours, the issues in Taiwan are similar but that's a whole different thread...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top