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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)

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Lonz said:
It’s naive to think that he wouldn’t attack a NATO country in my opinion. He’s already indirectly threatened nuclear strikes. We have to assume the bloke is playing his own game. The consequences of not doing so are too high.
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If that threat gets serious, NATO WILL ACT. Until then it will not. Simple really
 
Frijj said:
The advanced, developed, democratic, largely peaceful, and supposedly powerful western nations.
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I think you're being uncharacteristically irrational here, marra. This situation has been inevitable for a long time. The objective will be a minimal loss of life on either side imo. Putin will gain Ukraine and install his own government, there will be a reluctant acceptance from those nations you mention, so they'll squeeze his balls and say have it yor way, but this is how things are now. We're seeing a redrawing of the map which is something that has gone on for centuries.
 
Cow said:
Ukrainians lived under Russian rule not long ago, a big proportion of people in Ukraine see themselves as Russian and would happily live under Russian rule. This isn’t like Germany invading France for example. It’s more akin to a playground spat over whose turn it is to look after the classroom hamster
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Really?
 
I am deeply worried.

1. Russian nuclear use doctrine. Authorised (not that means anything at min) if "territory of Russia is threatened even by conventional force". He declares eg. Estonia as really part of wider Russia, he's taken on there & he declares that Russian land is threatened.

2. I've always had an interest in Putin & he's changed. He looks different & acts different. He had happy support of his cabinet & now they are terrified of him. Something is very much not right. He's 70 & I wonder if he is ill, or whether alleged 2 years of isolation have made him go a bit north Korea.

I think an internal "wtf is he doing" internal Russian action is only way out of this past a large confrontation.
 
Cow said:
Even taking the events of recent years out of it , I’m not sure how many people appreciated it even knew what was going on in eastern Ukraine. Ukrainians have lived with this threat and war for a long time now with no real recognition from the west
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Putin is expanding slowly to make it look like they’re small incidents that aren’t worth getting involved in. As long as he keeps getting away with that he’ll keep trying to do it.

Obviously this is a much bigger escalation than anything he’s done before.
 
Botchie said:
I think you're being uncharacteristically irrational here, marra. This situation has been inevitable for a long time. The objective will be a minimal loss of life on either side imo. Putin will gain Ukraine and install his own government, there will be a reluctant acceptance from those nations you mention, so they'll squeeze his balls and say have it yor way, but this is how things are now. We're seeing a redrawing of the map which is something that has gone on for centuries.
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I don’t understand why acceptance of that is supposedly rational though.

Why do we have to simply accept Russia can do what it wants? You could quite easily say Chamberlain thought the same in the 30s and look what happened there.
 
MonkeyLove said:
Interesting take from someone who knows what they are talking about

You must be logged on to see media items
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That to me suggests they don’t want to be seen as oppressors. They want Ukraine to become part of their sovereignty, so will want to gain the trust of the people.
 
Frijj said:
And how long does that strategy work? We let Russia take Ukraine? Why not let them
gobble up every non-NATO country? Why not let China take Taiwan?

If we don’t stand up to aggression now, where does it end?
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Again, where is the proof that he will go for more countries? There isn’t any. He’s been explicit in his reasons for wanting Ukraine, he’s wanted it for years, this has been playing out for years.

If we stand up to aggression like you claim we should, where does that end? How far does ‘standing up’ go when there’s a nuclear option? Do the people standing up to him back down at the last minute possibly giving him even more power than he could ever have dreamt of? Sometimes, and some people really struggle with this, it’s safer and wiser to accept a defeat and walk away, as awful as it is given the situation
 
Suomifinland said:
I am deeply worried.

1. Russian nuclear use doctrine. Authorised (not that means anything at min) if "territory of Russia is threatened even by conventional force". He declares eg. Estonia as really part of wider Russia, he's taken on there & he declares that Russian land is threatened.

2. I've always had an interest in Putin & he's changed. He looks different & acts different. He had happy support of his cabinet & now they are terrified of him. Something is very much not right. He's 70 & I wonder if he is ill, or whether alleged 2 years of isolation have made him go a bit north Korea.

I think an internal "wtf is he doing" internal Russian action is only way out of this past a large confrontation.
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His age is a factor in my opinion. He has much less to lose personally and he could easily start rolling the dice more if he’s not stopped.
 
Frijj said:
I don’t understand why acceptance of that is supposedly rational though.

Why do we have to simply accept Russia can do what it wants? You could quite easily say Chamberlain thought the same in the 30s and look what happened there.
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Beware applying Godwins law. It has been used to justify every disastrous foreign intervention such as Suez, Iraq, Afghanistan.

All unmitigated disasters.
 
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