Alcoholic_Author
Striker
Exact same argument was made a while back about helping out ethnic Germans. Exact same playbook
Straight out the Tankie playbook
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Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)
- Thread starter chunkyshanhawk53
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BASED.
Kent_Mackem
Striker
If a thermonuclear exchange occurs then it will be accidental not deliberate*. About the only good thing about those weapons is that they have prevented "the other side" from firing theirs. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from chucking nukes at each other. I don't think it will ever happen unless through mistaken identity of a suspect missle or glitches from ageing software/hardware.
*This assumes all players are of sound mind, which is why it is terrifying to think that Iran may get nuclear weapons one day soon. Then all bets are off because they have a deluded pseudo suicide bomber at the wheel.
Oliver Hardy
Central Defender
You're paranoid,who do you think i am then?
englishman abroad
Striker
If he thinks Biden is a soft touch, why did he go all in with Trump to get him re-elected?
move along folks, there's nothing to see here at all...
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jcrossan
Striker
Sure that if Canada joined a Chinese-led military alliance that allowed Chinese troops and missiles to be placed along the 49th parallel the US would simply say "Well that's alright fellas, after all you have the right to self determination."
The Swedes, the French and the Germans all invaded Russia via Ukraine...geography dictates you almost have to if approaching from the west. When you lose 20 million in a war it sort of sharpens the mind about allowing enemies on your doorstep. The US better be careful - history isn't always its strong point.
The Swedes, the French and the Germans all invaded Russia via Ukraine...geography dictates you almost have to if approaching from the west. When you lose 20 million in a war it sort of sharpens the mind about allowing enemies on your doorstep. The US better be careful - history isn't always its strong point.
Bulmers
Striker
yes we should the Ukraine are in the shit because they gave up the nukes
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Kent_Mackem
Striker
But none of the Western countries are threatening Russia. None of them has any intention of attacking Russia. There has been no change in recently, so why now from Russia?
chrismisterx
Striker
what about all the other countries that backed Hitler?
in fact a large part of the UK backed Hitler ands his ideas and thought it was a mistake going to war.
you should do some research on what really happened in the eastern part of Europe, you may rethink your stance.
r@mside
Striker
I think it's relevant here because Nazi-style fascism is still alive and kicking in Eastern Europe. There's at least one such armed militia been running riot in Donbas but for some odd reason, any mention of the SS flags and links to Ukraine's Social-National Assembly get dismissed as Russian propaganda.
In reality it's a problem for all sides. Zelensky doesn't have control over all the Ukraine-supporting militias in the conflict and Biden rolled back on a military aid package he promised - restraining them was a condition of the deal. It should go without saying that Russia has a legitimate concern because of the number of ethnic Russians with dual citizenship living in the region.
chrismisterx
Striker
indeed, there's a long history of fascism in many places around the world, with as you quite rightly point out places in Eastern Europe, so the question becomes do we ignore Ukraine's plight because of some parts of the country having what we feel is distasteful views?
There's parts of the US that has some Nazi fascism that quite shocking, doesn't mean we should tar the whole country with the same brush.
Eastern Europe is in my view second only to the middle east when it comes to the complexity of the politic makeup and how tribal the area is between differing factions, likely caused by the ebb and flow of different controlling empires throughout history, so quite ingrained views on differing cultures, a taste we saw with the break up of Yugoslavia.
Nazi's entering these areas give a chance for differing controlling peoples to use the Nazi's to get rid of people they didn't like, same as what happened with Stalin and the differing purges, how much this still effects current day thinking I am unsure but they has been a rise in extreme views again in places like Hungry, but I couldn't jump to any conclusions as I would just be guessing,
UZZA_SPARTA
Midfield
payback and a very long memory... Putin is still angry in way all those former east bloc countries ended up in the west.
also worth mentioning that part of the payback began years ago - think along lines of how all the migrants coming into Europe end up in the EU countries but in comparison none in or to Russia? And the financial burden that gives Europe or EU countries?
r@mside
Striker
I don't know that anyone is tarring Ukraine as fascist. It's trying to establish itself as a democracy but it's far from easy going when, like Russia and other parts of the region, it has next to no experience of being a democracy let alone a multi-ethnic democracy. Zelensky has been making some very undemocratic actions and while I wouldn't say he's heading to dictatorship, he's wittingly or unwittingly allowing the nazis a lot of rope.
I'm all for encouraging Ukraine to achieve its ambitions to be a democratic state but I can't see the justification of military intervention to resolve the Donbas and Crimea issues, especially when there's a risk of it exploding into something we're unprepared for like in the Middle East and Balkans.
In any case, I've already implied I'm sceptical of it escalating to war. I think most of the rhetoric is bluster and what we hear in the media is not what's actually playing out. For instance, the US has already back pedalled on the threat to impose sanctions which would scupper Nordstream 2 and the National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan took a much softer line about Russia's intent in his briefing yesterday.
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Well none of those demands will be met.
Suomifinland
Central Defender
All signs are that we'll see this happen in next few days unfortunately. Some unverified intel sources saying Xmas Eve.
Good analysis here:
Good analysis here:
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Alcoholic_Author
Striker
US reconnaissance plane Jake11 apparently logged over the sea around Murmansk, which is currently a no fly zone, play silly games and win silly prizes.
although you've given zero details
how would this be different to Bear and Badger incursions into American / UK / insert other country here ADIZs?
Salem-Hillbilly
Striker
Putin demanding NATO refuse membership to Russia's neighbouring countries whilst at the very least amasssing troops near the borders.
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smoker
Striker
Revisionism alert.
Napoleon went nowhere near Ukraine and attacked Russia from the Duchy of Warsaw and East Prussia in the north. Nazi Germany launched a three pronged attack on a broad front, only one of which entered Ukraine, the intended target of which was the Azerbaijan oil fields not Moscow. The Swedes would have to be a bit lost to go through Ukraine to get to Russia. They had twelve wars with Russia, which saw fighting in Finland, the Baltic Stats and Poland. Charles XII entered Ukraine once, to take up winter quarters in 1708.
You need to brush up on your geography as well as your history. There's nothing between Poland and Moscow but the East European Plain.
Don't you think historical wars and a conjured up threat is a weak excuse for interfering in the sovereignty of neighbouring countries in 2021, when it would be far easier to simply get on with them?
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