Jeremy Bamber White House Farm...Innocent or Evil scumbag?

[Mercia Blackcat]

If this was definitely a one gun crime (there is some controversy regarding the Pargeter rifle); and Sheila had to reload to the extent suggested, that implies both other adults have already been shot. If both adults are already shot, then 'the heat of the moment' is somewhat lessened. All of the info you use is from the second investigation ran by Ainsley. So the narrative of 25 shots / 25 hits is a 2nd investigation narrative, which was designed to nail Bamber. Even if this were an accurate portrayal of the shots fired and received by victims, how many of those shots were fired in to immobile or barely mobile targets because of previous shots and previous exertion?

She could have read psalms for much of her life. She experienced religious delusions. I'm not sure why you're trying to own the term 'psychotic' so that it only applied to what you think it should apply to? Your limited inner definition that you have in mind.

She was diagnosed as schizophrenic which is psychosis. You claim that her medication had been halved which you allege proves her psychosis was not under control. Although whether halving the medication means her psychosis was not under control is debateable because schizophrenia is a difficult condition to prescribe a suitable dose of medication for. She is described as being lethargic rather than excitable which hardly sounds like she was under prescribed.

Stop trying to deflect from the reality.

 

[John Steed]

Experts have said bambers act of grief at the funerals was fake. His facial expressions of sadness were wrong along with his body language. Also his voice on the call to the police wasn't the voice of a scared man.
His show of sadness at the funeral didn't last long. He started selling anything of value he could. He had his mother's dog put down and tried to sell topless pictures of his sister to the press. That's not the action of a grieving son, uncle and brother.
The statement from his girlfriend was more than damning. He phoned her on the night of the murders and said it had to be tonight. It's tonight or never. He'd already told her of a plan to sedate his parents and set the farmhouse on fire. He was so arrogant he obviously thought she wouldn't reveal what he'd said.
How anybody thinks he didn't do it is beyond me.

 

[Roker Skate]

She was diagnosed as schizophrenic which is psychosis. You claim that her medication had been halved which you allege proves her psychosis was not under control. Although whether halving the medication means her psychosis was not under control is debateable because schizophrenia is a difficult condition to prescribe a suitable dose of medication for. She is described as being lethargic rather than excitable which hardly sounds like she was under prescribed.

Stop trying to deflect from the reality.

I am thinking you should do the same and follow your own advice, as not all descriptions of her from that time say she was 'lethargic'. Due to level of violence, it's safe to say that she was enraged for at least part of the period in question that night. She may experienced auditory hallucinations or may have imagined she was at risk from threats that did not exist. That does not necessarily mean she was incapable of thought processes regarding how send her self and children to heaven. Such thought processes may have ran along what seemed like rational thought to Sheila, but to you or I, they would seem irrational and delusional.

She had previous episodes resulting in hospitalisation. So should we say such episodes didn't happen, purely because prior to the episodes, somebody witnessed her behaving normally or appearing to be tired?

Experts have said bambers act of grief at the funerals was fake. His facial expressions of sadness were wrong along with his body language. Also his voice on the call to the police wasn't the voice of a scared man.
His show of sadness at the funeral didn't last long. He started selling anything of value he could. He had his mother's dog put down and tried to sell topless pictures of his sister to the press. That's not the action of a grieving son, uncle and brother.
The statement from his girlfriend was more than damning. He phoned her on the night of the murders and said it had to be tonight. It's tonight or never. He'd already told her of a plan to sedate his parents and set the farmhouse on fire. He was so arrogant he obviously thought she wouldn't reveal what he'd said.
How anybody thinks he didn't do it is beyond me.

Julie Mugford has been portrayed as having come forward voluntarily. In reality, she was arrested and pressure was applied to her. Do you have any idea how many times she changed her statements? Or the number of times she met with DS Stan Jones? She was put up in a police college, with subsistence. Who paid for that? Essex Constabulary refuse to release her interview notes. Check The Guardian re Julie Mugford. What she did, she did to save herself. As for not believing, how can anyone possibly believe in a plan to obtain inheritance, that relies upon forewarning your partner and then basically dumping her after the deed? That is not a plan to secure inheritance.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I am thinking you should do the same and follow your own advice, as not all descriptions of her from that time say she was 'lethargic'. Due to level of violence, it's safe to say that she was enraged for at least part of the period in question that night. She may experienced auditory hallucinations or may have imagined she was at risk from threats that did not exist. That does not necessarily mean she was incapable of thought processes regarding how send her self and children to heaven. Such thought processes may have ran along what seemed like rational thought to Sheila, but to you or I, they would seem irrational and delusional.

She had previous episodes resulting in hospitalisation. So should we say such episodes didn't happen, purely because prior to the episodes, somebody witnessed her behaving normally or appearing to be tired?

I forgot to ask in my previous post, you do realise that schizophrenia is a form of psychosis don't you? Schizophrenia is also strongly associated with an inability to concentrate due to a higher than normal amount of neurotransmitters in the brain. That is why the antipsychotics are also called the major tranquillisers. You claim that her medication had been halved and that affected her psychotic state. Then you claim she was capable of a sequence of methodical acts. In fact schizophrenics are more likely to react with a chaotic, spontaneous act rather than those involving any rational thought. I don't think you have any understanding of schizophrenia and are simply indulging in what you think such a psychosis entails because that fits your prejudiced agenda.

 

[Roker Skate]

I forgot to ask in my previous post, you do realise that schizophrenia is a form of psychosis don't you? Schizophrenia is also strongly associated with an inability to concentrate due to a higher than normal amount of neurotransmitters in the brain. That is why the antipsychotics are also called the major tranquillisers. You claim that her medication had been halved and that affected her psychotic state. Then you claim she was capable of a sequence of methodical acts. In fact schizophrenics are more likely to react with a chaotic, spontaneous act rather than those involving any rational thought. I don't think you have any understanding of schizophrenia and are simply indulging in what you think such a psychosis entails because that fits your prejudiced agenda.

So in other words, somebody who is diagnosed with schizophrenia couldn't ever be in a position whereby they are also depressive and suicidal. Couldn't brood on anything for half the night. Sorry mate but your 'one size fits all' diagnosis and expertise doesn't wash with me.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

So in other words, somebody who is diagnosed with schizophrenia couldn't ever be in a position whereby they are also depressive and suicidal. Couldn't brood on anything for half the night. Sorry mate but your 'one size fits all' diagnosis and expertise doesn't wash with me.

They probably could but they would be agitated and restless, full of anxiety rather than calm, controlled and methodical. She was not bi-polar.

 

[Roker Skate]

They probably could but they would be agitated and restless, full of anxiety rather than calm, controlled and methodical. She was not bi-polar.

So how do you know she wasn't agitated and restless throughout the night, while others were asleep? He bed didn't look slept in.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

So how do you know she wasn't agitated and restless throughout the night, while others were asleep? He bed didn't look slept in.

She may have been, I wasn't there, but if that was the result of being under prescribed as you have claimed, then that state would have continued until she received adequate medication. Schizophrenia is not bipolar. So if she was in a psychotic frenzy she could not suddenly become calm and methodical which would be needed to carry out the killings. A schizophrenic does not understand the consequences of their actions. However, a psychopath is fully aware of the consequences of their actions but just doesn't care. I am astonished that in this day and age that actions associated with someone bipolar or psychopathic are being associated with someone who was schizophrenic. Sheila was not schizophrenic, bipolar and psychopathic all at once. In fact psychopath is not a term associated with schizophrenia by any qualified psychiatrist in the world.

The evidence suggests she was lethargic and vacant and I can see no reason why that would change after she went to bed.
PS
A schizophrenic does not suffer from multiple personality disorder either.

 

[Roker Skate]

She may have been, I wasn't there, but if that was the result of being under prescribed as you have claimed, then that state would have continued until she received adequate medication. Schizophrenia is not bipolar. So if she was in a psychotic frenzy she could not suddenly become calm and methodical which would be needed to carry out the killings. A schizophrenic does not understand the consequences of their actions. However, a psychopath is fully aware of the consequences of their actions but just doesn't care. I am astonished that in this day and age that actions associated with someone bipolar or psychopathic are being associated with someone who was schizophrenic. Sheila was not schizophrenic, bipolar and psychopathic all at once. In fact psychopath is not a term associated with schizophrenia by any qualified psychiatrist in the world.

The evidence suggests she was lethargic and vacant and I can see no reason why that would change after she went to bed.

I would imagine that if you have just fired 25 shots in to family members, including your own children, in the middle of the night; and it's now getting light outside; there's police with loudhailers; and the only next move you really have is to join your family on the other side, it's a pretty sobering scenario. How she felt at 12am and 3am may not be how she felt at 6am, surrounded by the bloodied corpses of her family. It is not possible to know or track her thoughts. In the past her dad was able to calm her. This was obviously a far more serious episode.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I would imagine that if you have just fired 25 shots in to family members, including your own children, in the middle of the night; and it's now getting light outside; there's police with loudhailers; and the only next move you really have is to join your family on the other side, it's a pretty sobering scenario. How she felt at 12am and 3am may not be how she felt at 6am, surrounded by the bloodied corpses of her family. It is not possible to know or track her thoughts. In the past her dad was able to calm her. This was obviously a far more serious episode.

So the actions of that night had a sobering effect on her and the glands in her brain suddenly stopped over producing neurotransmitters? I don't think so. A schizophrenic is not aware of the consequences of their actions.

 

[Roker Skate]

So the actions of that night had a sobering effect on her and the glands in her brain suddenly stopped over producing neurotransmitters? I don't think so. A schizophrenic is not aware of the consequences of their actions.

I would imagine she would be aware of her family's corpses and police loudhailers and the fact that night was turning in day.

 

[rentaghost]

How is it incredulous that a woman who was brought up around guns on a farm, hasn't been to sleep while others have, cannot handle and fire a light weight semi-automatic vermin rifle, in an enclosed space, at another person? I don't understand. You just shoot the person in front of you. That person is then in intense pain.

Neither the Bible nor the rifle were on Sheila when the tactical firearms group last saw the crime scene. It was placed on Sheila by police. During the COLP enquiry, it came to light that the TFG officers, both individually and 'as a team' raised 'real concerns' regarding Sheila's crime scene having been altered. This was never disclosed to the defence. It only came to light after the failed 2002 appeal. The officers in question were basically brushed aside and 'reassured' nothing had changed. They raised their concerns more than once.

Sheila would have been brought up with the Bible. She wouldn't need theological training to read a Psalm.

Because even in your short paragraph there everything is just guesswork and hope on your behalf. Nothing you have stated is fact its just supposition that you can pick up from a Bamberettes website. You state she didn't sleep as a fact. Its just a guess because it suits your angle. The crime scene shows the bed as disturbed, it could have been sat on it could have been slept in. There's certainly no evidence to say she was awake all night. She was a lass growing up on a farm but no-one has suggested she could effectively handle a gun but plenty of friends and family have never seen her shoot. She may well have done on the odd occasion but not to the extent she hits 25 out of 25, during which she reloads doesn't get any beewax on her hands from the gun that was treated with it. Additionally the detective in the recent documentary showed how tricky it was to reload and the pressure that needed to be applied. Its nonsensical imo.

So how do you know she wasn't agitated and restless throughout the night, while others were asleep? He bed didn't look slept in.

Agitated and restless doesn't really seem the mindset for someone with much firearam experience, if any to cooly dispatch 25 shots out of 25 into their intended targets that's for sure.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I would imagine she would be aware of her family's corpses and police loudhailers and the fact that night was turning in day.

Yet despite the fact the police were listening in on the phone line they heard nothing except movement that could be associated with the dog. They didn't hear a single gun shot never mind two.

She was dead long before any police arrived and the killer was stood outside acting so calm a paramedic thought he was a police officer.

 

[Roker Skate]

Because even in your short paragraph there everything is just guesswork and hope on your behalf. Nothing you have stated is fact its just supposition that you can pick up from a Bamberettes website. You state she didn't sleep as a fact. Its just a guess because it suits your angle. The crime scene shows the bed as disturbed, it could have been sat on it could have been slept in. There's certainly no evidence to say she was awake all night. She was a lass growing up on a farm but no-one has suggested she could effectively handle a gun but plenty of friends and family have never seen her shoot. She may well have done on the odd occasion but not to the extent she hits 25 out of 25, during which she reloads doesn't get any beewax on her hands from the gun that was treated with it. Additionally the detective in the recent documentary showed how tricky it was to reload and the pressure that needed to be applied. Its nonsensical imo.

Agitated and restless doesn't really seem the mindset for someone with much firearam experience, if any to cooly dispatch 25 shots out of 25 into their intended targets that's for sure.

How is the following not fact?

The victims were shot at close range in enclosed environments, ie bedroom; kitchen etc.

The rifle is lightweight, as displayed by ballistics expert ITV 2012. The same expert also did not believe it would be difficult to reload. It is possibly more difficult to reload the final bullet than the others.

Once hit, an adult victim would be in pain and there is a likelihood that they would experience reduced function / mobility.

The more shots received, the greater the loss of function / mobility for the shot victim concerned.

The more imobile a victim becomes, the more easy a target they become for the shooter.

Physical effort while wounded would lead to exhaustion.

Let's have a photo of the bed up on here so we can see whether it looks like it was slept in?

I think you have a problem with the concept of an armed woman physically getting the better of a man. A father is not going to kill his own daughter is he? Neither is he going to put himself in the line of fire, after having already received shots from her.

Work it out your self but these weak women and strapping men stereotypes are not going to solve what really took place.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I would imagine she would be aware of her family's corpses and police loudhailers and the fact that night was turning in day.

She was so calm that she realised she had no underwear on and after shooting herself twice pulled her nightdress down on the floor to cover her privates before talking her last breath. The nightdress having ridden up as she slid on the floor from a sitting position to flat on her back after shooting herself.

 

[Roker Skate]

Yet despite the fact the police were listening in on the phone line they heard nothing except movement that could be associated with the dog. They didn't hear a single gun shot never mind two.

She was dead long before any police arrived and the killer was stood outside acting so calm a paramedic thought he was a police officer.

I don't think the phone they were connected to was in the bedroom? The rifle is not loud. Check it out on YouTube.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Once hit, an adult victim would be in pain and there is a likelihood that they would experience reduced function / mobility.

The more shots received, the greater the loss of function / mobility for the shot victim concerned.

The more imobile a victim becomes, the more easy a target they become for the shooter.

Physical effort while wounded would lead to exhaustion.

Let's have a photo of the bed up on here so we can see whether it looks like it was slept in?

I think you have a problem with the concept of an armed woman physically getting the better of a man. A father is not going to kill his own daughter is he? Neither is he going to put himself in the line of fire, after having already received shots from her.

Yet the evidence confirms Nevill had been shot at least four times upstairs in the bedroom and half his law and mouth had been blown away. So after making it to the kitchen you think he wouldn't fight back against his daughter who had also allegedly shot June several times in the bedroom. This is just pure fantasy.

 

[Roker Skate]

She was so calm that she realised she had no underwear on and after shooting herself twice pulled her nightdress down on the floor to cover her privates before talking her last breath. The nightdress having ridden up as she slid on the floor from a sitting position to flat on her back after shooting herself.

The police staged her crime scene. As proven my TFG interviews given to COLP. Have a look at what's underneath the Bible (ie where police placed it). You can just see underneath it (on images you were never meant to see).

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I don't think the phone they were connected to was in the bedroom? The rifle is not loud. Check it out on YouTube.

Loud enough to be heard in the still of night indoors in a closed space.

 

[Roker Skate]

Yet the evidence confirms Nevill had been shot at least four times upstairs in the bedroom and half his law and mouth had been blown away. So after making it to the kitchen you think he wouldn't fight back against his daughter who had also allegedly shot June several times in the bedroom. This is just pure fantasy.

What a load of shite.

Loud enough to be heard in the still of night indoors in a closed space.

With police shouting in the background, after having smashed the door in?