Jeremy Bamber White House Farm...Innocent or Evil scumbag?

[Roker Skate]

So why does he not release all those clinical assessments to the public?

In fact most of them were probably simply routine internal assessments of the mental health of a prisoner.

Not all psychopaths are killers. In fact the vast majority are not. So what does that prove anyway even if he is not a psychopath?

It wasn't me that brought up the subject of psychopathy. But as you're probably aware already, this person assessed him and makes reference to prev assessments.

Professor Vincent BSc.(Hons).,Ph.D., D. Clin. Psy. Chartered Clinical Psychologist, Chartered Forensic Psychologist, Senior Lecturer in Forensic Psychology, University of Leicester, recently carried out a psychological assessment of Jeremy Bamber for a category A risk assessment review and he stated in his 14 page report:

“Jeremy has been previously assessed using the PCL-R and found non-psychopathic. My own assessment also found he did not meet caseness for clinical psychopathy, or even mild psychopathy.” He goes on to state “He did not meet caseness for any of the personality disorder dimensions.”

It has also been further suggested that Jeremy Bamber has used “Impression Management” to dupe the assessor into believing he has no psychopathy, nevertheless Professor Egan applied further tests to take this into account and noted:

“To examine whether Jeremy was exaggerating how he presented himself, he also completed the BIDR (Paulus, 1998). On this measure Jeremy was within the low-normal range for impression management and self-deception enhancement. These results suggest he was not presenting himself in an excessively anodyne way to bias the assessor.”

Professor Egan comments, “These findings suggest it is hard to sustain the view that Jeremy Bamber is so expert in deceptive self-presentation as to maintain this front for over a variety of different assessors, different assessment instruments and different times”

The assessment concludes with “Dangerous violent persons tend to be angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control, and none of these qualities appear to reflect Mr Bamber. Quite what the motive would be for something like the index offence being carried out by Mr Bamber again is very speculative, as is the proposition in the first place.”

From what I remember of this it had to be someone alive at the end of the shooting who had committed the killings. The gun silencer was found in the gun cupboard with blood on the inside and outside of it.
Sheila couldn't have shot herself with the silencer on the gun.
She would have had to realise this, remove the silencer, take it to the gun cupboard and them go upstairs to kill herself.
Why would she do that?
Why go upstairs to kill yourself?
Why place the silencer back in the cupboard?
Bamber did it as far as I can see.

Ballistics and burns experts from USA / UK do not believe a silencer was used in the killings. The crown has not contested their findings via any alternative experts. Furthermore, the police thoroughly searched the gun cupboard post killings. What need to be considered is, why would Jeremy Bamber replace a sticky silencer with a blob of blood on the outside (and apparently a grey hair attached to it) back in the gun cupboard without cleaning it? Does blood even adhere to metal in that way?

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

It wasn't me that brought up the subject of psychopathy. But as you're probably aware already, this person assessed him and makes reference to prev assessments.

Professor Vincent BSc.(Hons).,Ph.D., D. Clin. Psy. Chartered Clinical Psychologist, Chartered Forensic Psychologist, Senior Lecturer in Forensic Psychology, University of Leicester, recently carried out a psychological assessment of Jeremy Bamber for a category A risk assessment review and he stated in his 14 page report:

“Jeremy has been previously assessed using the PCL-R and found non-psychopathic. My own assessment also found he did not meet caseness for clinical psychopathy, or even mild psychopathy.” He goes on to state “He did not meet caseness for any of the personality disorder dimensions.”

It has also been further suggested that Jeremy Bamber has used “Impression Management” to dupe the assessor into believing he has no psychopathy, nevertheless Professor Egan applied further tests to take this into account and noted:

“To examine whether Jeremy was exaggerating how he presented himself, he also completed the BIDR (Paulus, 1998). On this measure Jeremy was within the low-normal range for impression management and self-deception enhancement. These results suggest he was not presenting himself in an excessively anodyne way to bias the assessor.”

Professor Egan comments, “These findings suggest it is hard to sustain the view that Jeremy Bamber is so expert in deceptive self-presentation as to maintain this front for over a variety of different assessors, different assessment instruments and different times”

The assessment concludes with “Dangerous violent persons tend to be angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control, and none of these qualities appear to reflect Mr Bamber. Quite what the motive would be for something like the index offence being carried out by Mr Bamber again is very speculative, as is the proposition in the first place.”

The assessment concludes with “Dangerous violent persons tend to be angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control

Strange that psychopaths are usually very much in control, manipulative of others and capable of detailed planning. Very rarely out of control and impulsive but emotionally cold due to the fact the amygdala (the emotional centre of the brain) is underactive compared to most people and that their pre-frontal cortex instead dominates. He could subject himself to a brain scan rather than a lie detector but he wont do that will he for obvious reasons?

The attributes Egan is referring to are more common among men who produce too much testosterone and are a different class of killer.

 

[Roker Skate]

It has been re investigated by a cold case team and belive me they love to show they are better than the the original team....to be fair the original team were in the 80's....also it was heard again by three high court judges and all agree the conviction is safe....I know what I belive

Thousands upon thousands of pages of evidence were still concealed with that appeal took place. Also hundreds of photographs. The appeal was probably doomed to failure. The judges also refused to hear some evidence and (I think) did not enforce that the prosecution's star witness to be questioned regarding her deal with News of The World.

The assessment concludes with “Dangerous violent persons tend to be angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control

Strange that psychopaths are usually very much in control, manipulative of others and capable of detailed planning. Very rarely out of control and impulsive but emotionally cold due to the fact the amygdala (the emotional centre of the brain) is underactive compared to most people and that their pre-frontal cortex instead dominates. He could subject himself to a brain scan rather than a lie detector but he wont do that will he for obvious reasons?

The attributes Egan is referring to are more common among men who produce too much testosterone and are a different class of killer.

I've never heard anyone suggest it in this case other than your self. So I do not know whether it has have ever been offered to him. Regarding Egan, I think Egan would know his stuff tbf. He doesn't seem under qualified.

 

[John Steed]

Thousands upon thousands of pages of evidence were still concealed with that appeal took place. Also hundreds of photographs. The appeal was probably doomed to failure. The judges also refused to hear some evidence and (I think) did not enforce that the prosecution's star witness to be questioned regarding her deal with News of The World.

I've never heard anyone suggest it in this case other than your self. So I do not know whether it has have ever been offered to him. Regarding Egan, I think Egan would know his stuff tbf. He doesn't seem under qualified.

Maybe he did clean it. They were very small traces of blood so he might have cleaned it in a rush. Some of the blood was inside the silencer I doubt he'd have cleaned the barrel.
If the silencer wasn't in the cupboard when the police searched there is only one conclusion. It was put there later.
Could Bamber have done that? Would he have been allowed into the scene of the crime? He wasn't a suspect at that point.
The other possibility was somebody else put it in the cupboard then the cousin found it. Who would do that?

 

[Cow]

Just going to put it out there again, Jeremy is my uncle. Bizarrely enough, the murders are perhaps the least interesting aspect of his life.

 

[look out piano]

Just going to put it out there again, Jeremy is my uncle. Bizarrely enough, the murders are perhaps the least interesting aspect of his life.

Jesus is he? What's your opinion on the case Cow ?

 

[John Steed]

Just going to put it out there again, Jeremy is my uncle. Bizarrely enough, the murders are perhaps the least interesting aspect of his life.

Do you think he did it?

 

[Roker Skate]

Maybe he did clean it. They were very small traces of blood so he might have cleaned it in a rush. Some of the blood was inside the silencer I doubt he'd have cleaned the barrel.
If the silencer wasn't in the cupboard when the police searched there is only one conclusion. It was put there later.
Could Bamber have done that? Would he have been allowed into the scene of the crime? He wasn't a suspect at that point.
The other possibility was somebody else put it in the cupboard then the cousin found it. Who would do that?

I see where you're coming from. After the murders he gave the keys to his relatives. They ended up being both the discoverers of the silencer and the beneficiaries of the estate. Prior to this, they had been left paltry amounts in June and Nevill Bamber's wills. By helping to ensure the conviction of their none-blood relative Jeremy, all that changed.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I see where you're coming from. After the murders he gave the keys to his relatives. They ended up being both the discoverers of the silencer and the beneficiaries of the estate. Prior to this, they had been left paltry amounts in June and Nevill Bamber's wills. By helping to ensure the conviction of their none-blood relative Jeremy, all that changed.

Yet Bamber did return to the farm and broke in before he went on his holiday in France. So he could have gained entry at any time undetected and proved that himself.

I see where you're coming from. After the murders he gave the keys to his relatives. They ended up being both the discoverers of the silencer and the beneficiaries of the estate. Prior to this, they had been left paltry amounts in June and Nevill Bamber's wills. By helping to ensure the conviction of their none-blood relative Jeremy, all that changed.

Yet Bamber did return to the farm and broke in before he went on his holiday in France. So he could have gained entry at any time undetected and proved that himself.

 

[Roker Skate]

Yet Bamber did return to the farm and broke in before he went on his holiday in France. So he could have gained entry at any time undetected and proved that himself.

Yet Bamber did return to the farm and broke in before he went on his holiday in France. So he could have gained entry at any time undetected and proved that himself.

To return a stick silencer with a blob of blood and grey hair on it?

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

To return a stick silencer with a blob of blood and grey hair on it?

I never said that but after handing the keys over to the relatives he could have returned and gained entry at any time without them. You were responding to the question whether he could have attempted to clean the silencer and then return it to the cupboard but said he handed over the keys to the relatives which tends to imply he could not have returned and gained entry when he clearly could and did.

 

[John Steed]

I see where you're coming from. After the murders he gave the keys to his relatives. They ended up being both the discoverers of the silencer and the beneficiaries of the estate. Prior to this, they had been left paltry amounts in June and Nevill Bamber's wills. By helping to ensure the conviction of their none-blood relative Jeremy, all that changed.

I still think Bamber did it. Over the decades with multiple investigations into a high profile crime like this, they will always come up with discrepancies. Little puzzles that are very hard to explain and blur the lines.
I think over the years Bamber has used those discrepancies to further his bid for freedom.
It occurred to me that the cousin might have placed the silencer. If he did where did he get it from? How did it have blood on it? The blood was human. How would the cousin know that the silencer would become a piece of vital evidence?
I think what happened is this. Bamber killed his family with a silenced gun. He didn't want to risk the shots being heard. He wanted it to look like his sister had committed the murders. He placed the gun in her hands and realised the silencer made it too long for her to kill herself. So he took it off the gun.
Sheila was shot twice and the first bullet would have rendered her incapable of firing the gun again.
The evidence of bambers girlfriend was pretty damning as well. Her statement was why the police started to investigate him. He'd told her he wanted his family dead on more than one occasion.
The bloke was a cold blooded psycho and doesn't deserve these well meaning attempts to clear his name.
The link below shows what Bamber had said to his girlfriend about wanting to kill his family. Then the calls he made to her after the murders.

Sheila Bamber's agonising last moments after Jeremy shot her but didn't kill her

ITV drama White House Farm tells the story of how Jeremy Bamber butchered his own family and was finally convicted after trying to blame his tragic sister for the massacre

www.google.com

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Thousands upon thousands of pages of evidence were still concealed with that appeal took place. Also hundreds of photographs. The appeal was probably doomed to failure. The judges also refused to hear some evidence and (I think) did not enforce that the prosecution's star witness to be questioned regarding her deal with News of The World.

I've never heard anyone suggest it in this case other than your self. So I do not know whether it has have ever been offered to him. Regarding Egan, I think Egan would know his stuff tbf. He doesn't seem under qualified.

Quite frankly the discrepancy in Egan's statement regarding out of control and impulsive violent killers that are associated with too high a level of testosterone (similar to so called roid rage) and the cold hearted, methodical actions of a psychopath could be spotted by a 10 year old. Either Egan is talking out his arse or he is being misquoted and out of full context. The conclusion that because Bamber does not display violent anger and rage so cannot be a cold hearted, emotionless psychopath defies even the simplest logic.

I still think Bamber did it. Over the decades with multiple investigations into a high profile crime like this, they will always come up with discrepancies. Little puzzles that are very hard to explain and blur the lines.
I think over the years Bamber has used those discrepancies to further his bid for freedom.
It occurred to me that the cousin might have placed the silencer. If he did where did he get it from? How did it have blood on it? The blood was human. How would the cousin know that the silencer would become a piece of vital evidence?
I think what happened is this. Bamber killed his family with a silenced gun. He didn't want to risk the shots being heard. He wanted it to look like his sister had committed the murders. He placed the gun in her hands and realised the silencer made it too long for her to kill herself. So he took it off the gun.
Sheila was shot twice and the first bullet would have rendered her incapable of firing the gun again.
The evidence of bambers girlfriend was pretty damning as well. Her statement was why the police started to investigate him. He'd told her he wanted his family dead on more than one occasion.
The bloke was a cold blooded psycho and doesn't deserve these well meaning attempts to clear his name.
The link below shows what Bamber had said to his girlfriend about wanting to kill his family. Then the calls he made to her after the murders.

Sheila Bamber's agonising last moments after Jeremy shot her but didn't kill her

ITV drama White House Farm tells the story of how Jeremy Bamber butchered his own family and was finally convicted after trying to blame his tragic sister for the massacre

www.google.com

The location and nature of the head shots to Nevill, the two boys and indeed June all indicate someone in full control, who knew what they doing and was familiar with the use of a firearm rather than someone who was experiencing a psychotic killing frenzy. It's ridiculous to imply otherwise.

 

[Roker Skate]

Quite frankly the discrepancy in Egan's statement regarding out of control and impulsive violent killers that are associated with too high a level of testosterone (similar to so called roid rage) and the cold hearted, methodical actions of a psychopath could be spotted by a 10 year old. Either Egan is talking out his arse or he is being misquoted and out of full context. The conclusion that because Bamber does not display violent anger and rage so cannot be a cold hearted, emotionless psychopath defies even the simplest logic.

The location and nature of the head shots to Nevill, the two boys and indeed June all indicate someone in full control, who knew what they doing and was familiar with the use of a firearm rather than someone who was experiencing a psychotic killing frenzy. It's ridiculous to imply otherwise.

It's not just Egan though is it? He makes reference to previous assessments.

As for your opinion regarding the shots to twin and June. It makes no sense for JB to attempt a complicated series of shots on one twin but not the other; and then blame that on Sheila? The arc on one one of the twins is probably because of the way Sheila handled the rifle. They were probably not deliberate. The twins were shot in their beds so this was hardly 'marksmanship' from Sheila. Regarding the adults, as soon as an adult is wounded after receiving a single gunshot, they are surely less able to move and in pain? By default then, the lack of mobility renders them easier targets. Boyce has already shown how lightweight and easy to use and easy to load the Anschutz is in the 2012 ITV docu.

Quite frankly the discrepancy in Egan's statement regarding out of control and impulsive violent killers that are associated with too high a level of testosterone (similar to so called roid rage) and the cold hearted, methodical actions of a psychopath could be spotted by a 10 year old. Either Egan is talking out his arse or he is being misquoted and out of full context. The conclusion that because Bamber does not display violent anger and rage so cannot be a cold hearted, emotionless psychopath defies even the simplest logic.

The location and nature of the head shots to Nevill, the two boys and indeed June all indicate someone in full control, who knew what they doing and was familiar with the use of a firearm rather than someone who was experiencing a psychotic killing frenzy. It's ridiculous to imply otherwise.

It's not just Egan though is it? He makes reference to previous assessments.

As for your opinion regarding the shots to twin and June. It makes no sense for JB to attempt a complicated series of shots on one twin but not the other; and then blame that on Sheila? The arc on one one of the twins is probably because of the way Sheila handled the rifle. They were probably not deliberate. The twins were shot in their beds so this was hardly 'marksmanship' from Sheila. Regarding the adults, as soon as an adult is wounded after receiving a single gunshot, they are surely less able to move and in pain? By default then, the lack of mobility renders them easier targets. Boyce has already shown how lightweight and easy to use and easy to load the Anschutz is in the 2012 ITV docu.

I never said that but after handing the keys over to the relatives he could have returned and gained entry at any time without them. You were responding to the question whether he could have attempted to clean the silencer and then return it to the cupboard but said he handed over the keys to the relatives which tends to imply he could not have returned and gained entry when he clearly could and did.

He could only gain entry if some windows were not locked, by the relatives after he has given them the keys; or by the police, prior to JB handing the keys to the relatives. I don't understand what you're trying to imply here. Clearly the silencer wasn't cleaned (if David Boutflour is to be believed), rendering your argument a moot point. Why would Bamber re-enter the farmhouse to plant a dirty silencer then give his relatives the keys in order to risk them finding it? This is just silly.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

It's not just Egan though is it? He makes reference to previous assessments.

As for your opinion regarding the shots to twin and June. It makes no sense for JB to attempt a complicated series of shots on one twin but not the other; and then blame that on Sheila? The arc on one one of the twins is probably because of the way Sheila handled the rifle. They were probably not deliberate. The twins were shot in their beds so this was hardly 'marksmanship' from Sheila. Regarding the adults, as soon as an adult is wounded after receiving a single gunshot, they are surely less able to move and in pain? By default then, the lack of mobility renders them easier targets. Boyce has already shown how lightweight and easy to use and easy to load the Anschutz is in the 2012 ITV docu.

It's not just Egan though is it? He makes reference to previous assessments.

As for your opinion regarding the shots to twin and June. It makes no sense for JB to attempt a complicated series of shots on one twin but not the other; and then blame that on Sheila? The arc on one one of the twins is probably because of the way Sheila handled the rifle. They were probably not deliberate. The twins were shot in their beds so this was hardly 'marksmanship' from Sheila. Regarding the adults, as soon as an adult is wounded after receiving a single gunshot, they are surely less able to move and in pain? By default then, the lack of mobility renders them easier targets. Boyce has already shown how lightweight and easy to use and easy to load the Anschutz is in the 2012 ITV docu.

He could only gain entry if some windows were not locked, by the relatives after he has given them the keys; or by the police, prior to JB handing the keys to the relatives. I don't understand what you're trying to imply here. Clearly the silencer wasn't cleaned (if David Boutflour is to be believed), rendering your argument a moot point. Why would Bamber re-enter the farmhouse to plant a dirty silencer then give his relatives the keys in order to risk them finding it? This is just silly.

We don't know what happened. He may have shot one of the twins methodically and then heard Nevill and June stirring so quickly shot the other before heading to the main bedroom. So Sheila in a psychotic frenzy has overcome Nevill and so to finish him off lets off two shots in quick succession to the temple area of the head damaging the frontal lobes of the brain on both sides. Then either before or after two more shots into the upper side of the head angled down into the brain. Sounds more like an methodical execution to me.

You know a latch of one window was loose and could be moved with something like a hacksaw blade from outside so why pretend otherwise?
....

There is overkill in the murders but it's too precise and methodical to be done in a psychotic frenzy so the only conclusion is that it has been staged to look that way.

 

[Roker Skate]

We don't know what happened. He may have shot one of the twins methodically and then heard Nevill and June stirring so quickly shot the other before heading to the main bedroom. So Sheila in a psychotic frenzy has overcome Nevill and so to finish him off lets off two shots in quick succession to the temple area of the head damaging the frontal lobes of the brain on both sides. Then either before or after two more shots into the upper side of the head angled down into the brain. Sounds more like an methodical execution to me.

You know a latch of one window was loose and could be moved with something like a hacksaw blade from outside so why pretend otherwise?
....

There is overkill in the murders but it's too precise and methodical to be done in a psychotic frenzy so the only conclusion is that it has been staged to look that way.

So basically, find any convoluted way possible to fit Bamber in to the arc shot for one twin in particular. Back later or tomorrow for more dueling. I haven't answered Rentaghost yet, so apologies for that. Regarding the windows, anyone interested in the windows should watch this ..

Regarding a hacksaw, I think you are misrepresenting a situation. No doubt that will set you on a mission.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

So basically, find any convoluted way possible to fit Bamber in to the arc shot for one twin in particular. Back later or tomorrow for more dueling. I haven't answered Rentaghost yet, so apologies for that. Regarding the windows, anyone interested in the windows should watch this ..

Regarding a hacksaw, I think you are misrepresenting a situation. No doubt that will set you on a mission.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with Sheila but on a much grander scale?

I don't need to go on a mission. Bamber explained the method of getting in during his police interview.

 

[Roker Skate]

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with Sheila but on a much grander scale?

I don't need to go on a mission. Bamber explained the method of getting in during his police interview.

Not in to a locked house he didn't. As for JB, why would he take elaborate shots on a victim who was asleep, if he was planning on blaming the killings on his sister, who allegedly knew nothing about guns and wasn't known for using them? What kind of plan is that? It almost as absurd as telling your girlfriend you're planning on killing your entire family, then going ahead with it, then allowing your relationship with her to disintegrate and end, while relying on her not to say anything to the police about the murderous plans you informed her of. What an absolute joke.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Not in to a locked house he didn't. As for JB, why would he take elaborate shots on a victim who was asleep, if he was planning on blaming the killings on his sister, who allegedly knew nothing about guns and wasn't known for using them? What kind of plan is that? It almost as absurd as telling your girlfriend you're planning on killing your entire family, then going ahead with it, then allowing your relationship with her to disintegrate and end, while relying on her not to say anything to the police about the murderous plans you informed her of. What an absolute joke.

He thought he had planned the perfect crime. To be honest if he had held his nerve and not telephoned the police claiming Nevill had rang him he might have gotten away with it. That's Nevill with half his mouth blown away who still left no blood on the phone until the diminutive Sheila pressed the black button to cut him off while no doubt whispering in his ear, "I don't think so daddy". The same Sheila who was sedated but had not taken the medication for the side effects such as uncontrollable shaking and poor coordination who then carried out a series of executions with such precision and control of a weapon she had no experience of using. The same Sheila who then shot herself in the neck which incapacitated her but thought "Of dear that didn't work very well, better take another shot". Before that she may have been heard running around the house barking like a dog to confuse the police listening on the telephone line. What was a joke was the superficial inspection of the scene that led to the premature conclusion it was a murder/suicide. I mean what more evidence could you need. The rifle was lying on her body. QED.

I guess the narcissist Jeremy just wasn't as clever as he believed.
...
Regarding Julie's story, that must be the one corroborated by his Marsden. He thought he had full control of Julie and had her so scared so she dare not go to the police or she was be classed as an accessory to murder.
Typical psychopathic behaviour. Even the defence psychiatrist at the trial concluded he was a psychopath.
edit:
His mate Marsden that should read.

 

[TwasOnTheFifthOfMay]

There is overkill in the murders but it's too precise and methodical to be done in a psychotic frenzy so the only conclusion is that it has been staged to look that way.

Argument by incredulity isn't really enough to convict somebody of mass murder in the absence of any positive forensic evidence, particularly when there's a plausible alternative explanation. Ditto behaving weirdly at a funeral and things said to his girlfriend.