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June to July 2020 - NUFC

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So you are here just to wind us up is that what your saying?As this thread has nowt to do with SAFC.

You come on here because your fans have shite crack and and can't make a forum as succesful as this 😂

Aye, just bored really. Our forums are indeed shite, can't argue with that.
 

Bruce is doing an all right job, but I'm not blind to context. We've been unbelievably lucky, and as I've said elsewhere we're hugely reliant on Dubravka this season. Said to mates I can't think of a season where we've been more indebted to a 'keeper. If we'd been playing a worse 'keeper for the season I honestly believe we'd be in real danger of relegation, as his excellence has won us points on his own.

Benitez has his faults, absolutely; ditching the cups, too often playing it safe, etc. I do think he put in place the foundations to kick us on. If you base progress solely on league finish, you're dismissing everything else and the fluidity of the league table. 17/18 we finished 10th on 44pts, 18/19 we finished 13th on 45pts.

Good players win points mate. Good goal scorers win games, good goalkeepers likewise. This is not exclusive to Newcastle. How many points for example did Schmeichal earn for Man U back in 95/96 ? Was that down to luck or just somebody doing their job ?
 
I mean, if you take things on the basis of individual seasons and don't look at trajectories or performances, then yeah, you're right.

Benitez took Newcastle from relegation material to a solid, mid table finish three years later - in the last six months of his tenure we were one of the league's form teams in terms of points and the sixth highest scoring team in the league as well.

Bruce came in and spent £60 million+ to make us worse in literally every aspect - both objectively, from a stats perspective , and subjectively from a "this is f***ing turgid to watch" perspective. This is under what should be a new manager bounce.

Pardew is disliked a) coz he's a collosal twat, and b) because despite one good season, the rest of his time here was a farce. The media love in only emphasised this contempt, just like with Bruce.

Sunderland fans should know better than anyone the dangers of judging managers on short term performances instead of long term ideas and projects.
Wee's this knacker?

Long term ideas and projects.
He fucked off his project for more money in China.
Yeah, I tend to like people who's behaviour irritates me too...

I don't get this, every manager benefits from luck on occasion, but when the fundamentals are sound, when the system is sound, they're less reliant on it. Bruce has been reliant on good fortune.


Benitez doesn't prefer flair players, this is undeniable, but he's been extremely successful in his career and built, at Newcastle, the foundations to allow us to play with more dynamism up front. There were plenty of games where we were set up to get all three points, predicated on a solid defence. Once your defensive unit is cohesive and reliable, you can afford more freedom to your attackers. The best form of defence isn't attack, it's good defending. That's why terrific attacking sides with a poor defence end up on the receiving end of sound beatings. Norwich play some lovely stuff and are rock bottom. Arsenal can be dazzling in attack and get unstuck when facing a resolute defence.


Not in the same league as Bruce man. Dubravka has made more saves than any other 'keeper in the league (118 so far), last season he only had to make 94, total.

That's just not true.



We are 20th in the league for creating chances (4th in the league for allowing them). The football has, at times, been a better watch under Bruce for the neutral, I grant you. But how much of that is down to Saint-Maximin because, frankly, the rest of the team aren't getting me out my seat. There were times under Benitez where we played some lovely stuff, chiefly after Almiron was bought and we had a player who could carry the ball at pace.


Eh? you're confusing achievement with ability. Benitez delivered automatic promotion, a top 10 finish and a midtable finish. He got the team playing from a sound footing and was adding some quality to our attack. Bruce has inherited a good defence and knackered it, in less than a season. I'd rather have a good manager who's rebuilding, than a bang average manager who's undoing the good work.

I think the fans who are bothered about Bruce being an ex-Sunderland manager are not worth worrying about.


It's a sport played by elite athletes, so yes, they eat better and gone are the halftime pies and cigarettes. Good.
Are there more injuries or are the players just taken better care of? You here tales of players who broke a bone and carried on playing, as if that improves the quality of the football. It's nonsense.
And with the scientific mumbo-jumbo has come better football. Football played at a faster pace, with more entertainment on show. Worldies now aren't just someone leathering it from 30yds. Football is better now than it's ever been.




It's not though, it's a realistic appraisal of your teams strengths versus the opposition's. Brunley haven't the players to go to Man City and play on the front foot, they'll be annihilated. Hell, Burnley can't go to Everton, or Wolves and play on the front foot. If they tried to play the ball around their players' limited ability would see them surrender possession cheaply, get caught out of position too often and leave their limited defenders exposed. So they play to their strengths. Packed, organised defence, long balls up to powerful forwards. It works.

No it isn't. Not any more. If it was purely hard work and simple tactics then Burnley and Newcastle would top the table. Even then I'm doing a disservice to Burnley and Newcastle.

We do, although some are informed opinions... ;)
Get a life.
 
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Wee's this knacker?

Long term ideas and projects.
He fucked off his project for more money in China.

I wasn't referring to Benitez in that sentence, I was talking in general, in that obviously a manager like Bruce provably has no track record whatsoever of formulating a long term plan or laying down tactical foundations. Which, again, Sunderland fans should know. The only foundations he laid at your club paved the way for where you are now.

The fact that you assumed it to be about Benitez says a lot, though.
 
I mean, if you take things on the basis of individual seasons and don't look at trajectories or performances, then yeah, you're right.

Benitez took Newcastle from relegation material to a solid, mid table finish three years later - in the last six months of his tenure we were one of the league's form teams in terms of points and the sixth highest scoring team in the league as well.

Bruce came in and spent £60 million+ to make us worse in literally every aspect - both objectively, from a stats perspective , and subjectively from a "this is f***ing turgid to watch" perspective. This is under what should be a new manager bounce.

Pardew is disliked a) coz he's a collosal twat, and b) because despite one good season, the rest of his time here was a farce. The media love in only emphasised this contempt, just like with Bruce.

Sunderland fans should know better than anyone the dangers of judging managers on short term performances instead of long term ideas and projects.

‘Trajectories’, ‘projects’, ‘stats’.. more waffle from supporters who constantly look to avoid the only stat that matters which is points.

Ive seen a hell of a lot in my 35 years on gallowgate but I’ve seen nothing like this Totally unwarranted Benítez love in
 
Yeah, I tend to like people who's behaviour irritates me too...

I don't get this, every manager benefits from luck on occasion, but when the fundamentals are sound, when the system is sound, they're less reliant on it. Bruce has been reliant on good fortune.


Benitez doesn't prefer flair players, this is undeniable, but he's been extremely successful in his career and built, at Newcastle, the foundations to allow us to play with more dynamism up front. There were plenty of games where we were set up to get all three points, predicated on a solid defence. Once your defensive unit is cohesive and reliable, you can afford more freedom to your attackers. The best form of defence isn't attack, it's good defending. That's why terrific attacking sides with a poor defence end up on the receiving end of sound beatings. Norwich play some lovely stuff and are rock bottom. Arsenal can be dazzling in attack and get unstuck when facing a resolute defence.


Not in the same league as Bruce man. Dubravka has made more saves than any other 'keeper in the league (118 so far), last season he only had to make 94, total.

That's just not true.



We are 20th in the league for creating chances (4th in the league for allowing them). The football has, at times, been a better watch under Bruce for the neutral, I grant you. But how much of that is down to Saint-Maximin because, frankly, the rest of the team aren't getting me out my seat. There were times under Benitez where we played some lovely stuff, chiefly after Almiron was bought and we had a player who could carry the ball at pace.


Eh? you're confusing achievement with ability. Benitez delivered automatic promotion, a top 10 finish and a midtable finish. He got the team playing from a sound footing and was adding some quality to our attack. Bruce has inherited a good defence and knackered it, in less than a season. I'd rather have a good manager who's rebuilding, than a bang average manager who's undoing the good work.

I think the fans who are bothered about Bruce being an ex-Sunderland manager are not worth worrying about.


It's a sport played by elite athletes, so yes, they eat better and gone are the halftime pies and cigarettes. Good.
Are there more injuries or are the players just taken better care of? You here tales of players who broke a bone and carried on playing, as if that improves the quality of the football. It's nonsense.
And with the scientific mumbo-jumbo has come better football. Football played at a faster pace, with more entertainment on show. Worldies now aren't just someone leathering it from 30yds. Football is better now than it's ever been.




It's not though, it's a realistic appraisal of your teams strengths versus the opposition's. Brunley haven't the players to go to Man City and play on the front foot, they'll be annihilated. Hell, Burnley can't go to Everton, or Wolves and play on the front foot. If they tried to play the ball around their players' limited ability would see them surrender possession cheaply, get caught out of position too often and leave their limited defenders exposed. So they play to their strengths. Packed, organised defence, long balls up to powerful forwards. It works.

No it isn't. Not any more. If it was purely hard work and simple tactics then Burnley and Newcastle would top the table. Even then I'm doing a disservice to Burnley and Newcastle.

We do, although some are informed opinions... ;)

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‘Trajectories’, ‘projects’, ‘stats’.. more waffle from supporters who constantly look to avoid the only stat that matters which is points.

Ive seen a hell of a lot in my 35 years on gallowgate but I’ve seen nothing like this Totally unwarranted Benítez love in

Okay then. After spending almost £70,000,000 (fact) Bruce has the same amount of points this season that Benitez did at this stage last season (fact), with a vastly worse goal difference (fact).

Therefore, it is a fact that Bruce has performed worse than Benitez. Debate over, by your own logic.

And again, this isn't pro Benitez, it's anti-Bruce. It's amazing how the narrative about Bruce has changed on here over the years - check the threads in the first few posts in my post history, and you lads are saying the exact same things that you're now arguing against.
 
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Okay then. After spending almost £70,000,000 (fact) Bruce has the same amount of points this season that Benitez did at this stage last season (fact), with a vastly worse goal difference (fact).

Therefore, it is a fact that Bruce has performed worse than Benitez. Debate over, by your logic.

Hes gone man get over it f***ing hell...
 
Okay then. After spending almost £70,000,000 (fact) Bruce has the same amount of points this season that Benitez did at this stage last season (fact), with a vastly worse goal difference (fact).

Therefore, it is a fact that Bruce has performed worse than Benitez. Debate over, by your logic.
Which signings has Steve Bruce made that add up to £70m. Itemise please.
 
Which signings has Steve Bruce made that add up to £70m. Itemise please.

Joelinton £40,000,000 + undisclosed add ons
ASM £20,000,000 including add ons
Kraft £5 million
Loan fees £3 million

Close enough.

Or do they only count as Bruce signings if they're good?
It's like a spurned lover :lol:

Rafa's getting his needs fed by the Chinese now.

Weren't you lot desperate to get Reidy back for years, and compared the failings of following regimes to his "success" ? Or is that not the same because it's you?
 
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Joelinton £40,000,000 + undisclosed add ons
ASM £20,000,000 including add ons
Kraft £5 million
Loan fees £3 million

Close enough.

Or do they only count as Bruce signings if they're good?


Weren't you lot desperate to get Reidy back for years, and compared the failings of following regimes to his "success" ? Or is that not the same because it's you?

Reid gave us our best teams and finishes in a generation or more. Benitez got you bottom half.
 
Reid gave us our best teams and finishes in a generation or more. Benitez got you bottom half.

How many seasons, relegations and failed promotions did it take Reid to guide you to two seventh place finishes (ie, just above midtable)? Would you describe his tenure at Sunderland prior to those finishes as a "project" of sorts? Or was he just shit before then and hit lucky?
 
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How many seasons, relegations and failed promotions did it take Reid to guide you to two seventh place finishes (ie, just above midtable)? Would you describe his tenure at Sunderland prior to those finishes as a "project" of sorts? Or was he just shit before then and hit lucky?

He got a team who had no right to be promoted into the Premier League as Champions, we were relegated with 40 points then missed out on penalties before breaking records the following season. We then achieved back-to-back 7th place finishes.
He did an outstanding job.

Now, compare that with Benitez - relegation when it was well in your hands - had to beat Villa and Norwich, promoted after spending £50m in The Championship (net spend is irrelevant here, you spent £50m on players in the second tier). He then had you battling relegation and finishing lower mid table two seasons in a row.

You can't really compare the two.
 
You absolutely can compare the two, you just don't want to because it doesn't suit your narrative :lol: why can't we use net spend/players-sold, when the players-sold argument is used to defend Bruce ("he lost Rondon and Perez etc etc")?

7th place is hardly outstanding. It was, however, excellent given where you were when he took over. 10-13th place is hardly outstanding either, it was however, excellent compared to where we were in terms of trajectory when the dutch numptee left.

The parallels between early Reid and Benitez's time at Newcastle are actually pretty stark, if you look at it from an unbiased angle.
 
Okay then. After spending almost £70,000,000 (fact) Bruce has the same amount of points this season that Benitez did at this stage last season (fact), with a vastly worse goal difference (fact).

Therefore, it is a fact that Bruce has performed worse than Benitez. Debate over, by your own logic.

And again, this isn't pro Benitez, it's anti-Bruce. It's amazing how the narrative about Bruce has changed on here over the years - check the threads in the first few posts in my post history, and you lads are saying the exact same things that you're now arguing against.
Aye but what was the all important net spend?
 
Okay then. After spending almost £70,000,000 (fact) Bruce has the same amount of points this season that Benitez did at this stage last season (fact), with a vastly worse goal difference (fact).

Therefore, it is a fact that Bruce has performed worse than Benitez. Debate over, by your own logic.

And again, this isn't pro Benitez, it's anti-Bruce. It's amazing how the narrative about Bruce has changed on here over the years - check the threads in the first few posts in my post history, and you lads are saying the exact same things that you're now arguing against.

Did you think that we’d ( NUFC ) be relegated under Bruce ? If so are you man enough to admit you underestimated him ?

Benitez most points in season for us was 45. If Bruce achieves another 7 points from the remaining 7 games will you admit he’s done a better job than his predecessor?
 
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