RAWA - the voice of the people

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muffler said:
Football clubs are a strange business. I’m not sure of any other privately owned business who’s customers (because that’s what we are) feel they have a right to an understanding of how it’s ran.

On the one hand I feel it’s in the public interest because as it forms such a big part of the city, it’s culture and lives - it’s institutional; on the other I think we expect the owner (whoever it is) to be more open than I know I would want to be if I was in that position.

I hope whoever comes in just stays really quiet.
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This. We have people on here that understand but there are plenty of less knowledge who take well meant interpretation who misunderstand it and chatter as though they are experts. This leads to all sorts of misinformation, rumour and yes untruths about the clubs finances and actions taken by the owners.
The Albanian said:
Imagine the fallout if it was ever to be revealed SD moved that £9m from SAFC to Madrox so he could loan it back at +6.5%

:lol:
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There will be people spreading this as fact now ...
 
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Sumdumgi said:
This. We have people on here that understand but there are plenty of less knowledge who take well meant interpretation who misunderstand it and chatter as though they are experts. This leads to all sorts of misinformation, rumour and yes untruths about the clubs finances and actions taken by the owners.


There will be people spreading this as fact now ...
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I’m yet to see any proof it isn’t tbf marra
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Again, that's nothing to do with the club. That's a non-interest bearing loan as far as I can see (it was £5m at 31/7/18, and disclosed as such in the accounts of SJD Leisure Developments, which holds Donald's shares in Madrox.
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This one was August 2018 and was interest bearing. 6% above HSBC business rate.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
That's the document that gives FPP scecurity over SAFC assets (in this case, the AoL). There's a similar document in Sunderland Ltd covering the charge over the SOL, and yet another in Madrox giving the security over its shares in Sunderland Ltd. In all cases, the borrower is identified as Madrox.
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The document shown yesterday was definitely a loan from Donald to Madrox, and definitely stated an interest rate about 6% over base rate; like I say I'm unsure if it could affect the club in any way (probably not imo, which would make it a bit of a non issue, but the RAWA lads certainly thought it was unusual so it's worth looking into!) . I just find it strange that they say its buried on companies house somewhere but, as a loan to Madrox, I imagine it would have to show on Madrox's page, and yet I can't see it anywhere!
 
Steeeeed said:
This one was August 2018 and was interest bearing. 6% above HSBC business rate.
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There's nothing at Companies House on that. Where's the evidence?

Guinness Guzzler said:
The document shown yesterday was definitely a loan from Donald to Madrox, and definitely stated an interest rate about 6% over base rate; like I say I'm unsure if it could affect the club in any way (probably not imo, which would make it a bit of a non issue, but the RAWA lads certainly thought it was unusual so it's worth looking into!) . I just find it strange that they say its buried on companies house somewhere but, as a loan to Madrox, I imagine it would have to show on Madrox's page, and yet I can't see it anywhere!
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There's nothing on either Madrox or SJD Leisure Holdings about that, and if it wasn't a secured loan there wouldn't have to be. If RAWA have seen something, it's not in the public domain.
 
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Grumpy Old Man said:
There's nothing at Companies House on that. Where's the evidence?



There's nothing on either Madrox or SJD Leisure Holdings about that, and if it wasn't a secured loan there wouldn't have to be. If RAWA have seen something, it's not in the public domain.
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Does seem strange, at the meeting they definitely showed a sheet detailing the loan. They said they'd asked why it was interest bearing, Donald said that was a mistake and then sent a letter from his accountant saying that he doesn't charge interest, RAWA were asking for him to show something more official conforming the mistake in the original had been rectified (which is why I wasn't going to mention it on here until Gareth brought it up, they're still waiting for it). They mentioned yesterday and Gareth has mentioned on this thread that it can be found on companies house but, as you say, as a loan to Madrox I'd expect that's where it would be, but there's no sign
 
Steeeeed said:
It's unsecured.
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I'm getting confused now (easily done mind!) I thought it was mentioned that the doc was somewhere on companies house, and also thought it was mentioned that it was secured against Madrox assets (might be wrong on the last but though). If it isn't secured I wouldn't have thought it would be on companies house? Good seeing you yesterday anyway mate, let's just hope the ownership gets sorted fully soon and we can stop worrying!
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
And it doesn't. Believe me, I've looked.
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I don't think anyone is disputing you, marra. However I doubt the question would have been asked without proof. It shows there's more under the surface than we know about. You've said yourself without access to full accounts you can't get the whole picture.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
So, does that mean you've seen information not in the public domain?
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I was under the impression that it was in the public domain but don't dispute what you are saying. Happy to take your word for when and where it would appear.
Guinness Guzzler said:
I'm getting confused now (easily done mind!) I thought it was mentioned that the doc was somewhere on companies house, and also thought it was mentioned that it was secured against Madrox assets (might be wrong on the last but though). If it isn't secured I wouldn't have thought it would be on companies house? Good seeing you yesterday anyway mate, let's just hope the ownership gets sorted fully soon and we can stop worrying!
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Good to meet you. We ended up at goth night in Establishment. It was... strange.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
The document shown yesterday was definitely a loan from Donald to Madrox, and definitely stated an interest rate about 6% over base rate; like I say I'm unsure if it could affect the club in any way (probably not imo, which would make it a bit of a non issue, but the RAWA lads certainly thought it was unusual so it's worth looking into!) . I just find it strange that they say its buried on companies house somewhere but, as a loan to Madrox, I imagine it would have to show on Madrox's page, and yet I can't see it anywhere!
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Yes i found it an interesting document, and the letter that came with it.
 
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