RAWA - the voice of the people

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Guinness Guzzler said:
I'll be honest mate, firstly I didn't really understand it fully (if its a loan to Madrox I don't see how it affects SAFC if he charges interest, similar to how the FPP loan to Madrox isn't one the club have to pay back) so I didn't want to spout off about something I don't understand, and also the lad chairing the meeting did say he didn't want that mentioned outside the room because they were still in discussion with Donald about it, so I didn't post it in case I fucked up their discussions meaning they couldn't get to the bottom of it! If I thought it was really damaging to the club I'd have posted it, but I thought I was doing the right thing by doing as requested and not mentioning it until they heard back from Donald!
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Was there any kind of vote, discussion of whether they should have released the joint statement (either at all or even only in the strictly "Get Out!" format it was released in, or of the timing it happened directly before the transfer window) or discussion of their next step in the #DonaldOut thing?
 


The Albanian said:
whats this about, marra?
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So, basically. Madrox have loaned SAFC money. The interest was 6.5% above the base rate offered by HSBC at the time the loan was taken. The documents are in the public domain but buried on companies house. RAWA have been pursuing an answer on this from Donald. When Donald was challenged on this he stated it was ‘an accident’. So Madrox will be making money/would’ve made money from this loan.

Owners do loan money to clubs with interest. It’s not unusual. But Donald has basically loaned himself money and is paying it back to himself, in this instance.

I’m sure he’ll clear it up in time though...
 
fyl2u said:
Was there any kind of vote, discussion of whether they should have released the joint statement (either at all or even only in the strictly "Get Out!" format it was released in, or of the timing it happened directly before the transfer window) or discussion of their next step in the #DonaldOut thing?
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No, they did mention that quite a few people weren't happy with not getting balloted and said they'd have to learn lessons for next time, so it might be that in the future major things like that are voted on in some form first.

Also, whilst I understand their reasons for doing so, they said they'd continue to be Donald out, had other things planned (presumably mainly social media stuff) but that they wouldn't do more until results turn. Now, I do understand that; if we win 3-0 tomorrow they'd get no traction from a Donald out post, but doing it this way where they seem quiet until we lose a couple will open them up to accusations that they only go Donald out when we lose a couple and are thus kneejerking. Not an easy one for them admittedly
 
GarethQ said:
So, basically. Madrox have loaned SAFC money. The interest was 6.5% above the base rate offered by HSBC at the time the loan was taken. The documents are in the public domain but buried on companies house. RAWA have been pursuing an answer on this from Donald. When Donald was challenged on this he stated it was ‘an accident’. So Madrox will be making money/would’ve made money from this loan.

Owners do loan money to clubs with interest. It’s not unusual. But Donald has basically loaned himself money and is paying it back to himself, in this instance.

I’m sure he’ll clear it up in time though...
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Did he ever provide the club structural chart he agreed to beginning of December?
 
Hull_Mackem said:
So absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to join in with the fanzines without consulting the members first then. They've ruined their own organisation to some extent. It's literally the exact opposite of what they said they stood for.
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Well apart from being 13th in a shit league with a seemingly shit manager without a pot to piss and an absent owner whose record thus far has been sketchy at best, no, no reason at all.
 
GarethQ said:
So, basically. Madrox have loaned SAFC money. The interest was 6.5% above the base rate offered by HSBC at the time the loan was taken. The documents are in the public domain but buried on companies house. RAWA have been pursuing an answer on this from Donald. When Donald was challenged on this he stated it was ‘an accident’. So Madrox will be making money/would’ve made money from this loan.

Owners do loan money to clubs with interest. It’s not unusual. But Donald has basically loaned himself money and is paying it back to himself, in this instance.

I’m sure he’ll clear it up in time though...
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thanks mate.

taken in isolation, this sounds alarming. Especially at that rate - +6.5% is eye watering.

Do we know how much was loaned?

it feels particularly weird to me because not that long ago there was a loan in the other direction.
 
GarethQ said:
So, basically. Madrox have loaned SAFC money. The interest was 6.5% above the base rate offered by HSBC at the time the loan was taken. The documents are in the public domain but buried on companies house. RAWA have been pursuing an answer on this from Donald. When Donald was challenged on this he stated it was ‘an accident’. So Madrox will be making money/would’ve made money from this loan.

Owners do loan money to clubs with interest. It’s not unusual. But Donald has basically loaned himself money and is paying it back to himself, in this instance.

I’m sure he’ll clear it up in time though...
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That doesn't sound as though it's in the best interest for the club...
 
GarethQ said:
So, basically. Madrox have loaned SAFC money. The interest was 6.5% above the base rate offered by HSBC at the time the loan was taken. The documents are in the public domain but buried on companies house. RAWA have been pursuing an answer on this from Donald. When Donald was challenged on this he stated it was ‘an accident’. So Madrox will be making money/would’ve made money from this loan.

Owners do loan money to clubs with interest. It’s not unusual. But Donald has basically loaned himself money and is paying it back to himself, in this instance.

I’m sure he’ll clear it up in time though...
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As an aside do you know where the document is on companies house? Theres only one charge recorded on there against Madrox (and that is the FPP loan). I saw the sheet at the meeting, so I know it exists, just can't see it on companies house against any of the companies involved (madrox, sjd, Sunderland etc)
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
As an aside do you know where the document is on companies house? Theres only one charge recorded on there against Madrox (and that is the FPP loan). I saw the sheet at the meeting, so I know it exists, just can't see it on companies house against any of the companies involved (madrox, sjd, Sunderland etc)
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Charge - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

SUNDERLAND ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL CLUB,LIMITED(THE) - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk beta.companieshouse.gov.uk

Is that it?
 
Football clubs are a strange business. I’m not sure of any other privately owned business who’s customers (because that’s what we are) feel they have a right to an understanding of how it’s ran.

On the one hand I feel it’s in the public interest because as it forms such a big part of the city, it’s culture and lives - it’s institutional; on the other I think we expect the owner (whoever it is) to be more open than I know I would want to be if I was in that position.

I hope whoever comes in just stays really quiet.
 
shepherd88 said:

Charge - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

SUNDERLAND ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL CLUB,LIMITED(THE) - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk beta.companieshouse.gov.uk

Is that it?
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That seems to be the FPP one. This is a random loan from Donald to Madrox, but there's no note of it that I can see on the Madrox page. Iirc it was about £7m at 6.5% above base rate interest, but I might be completely wrong about the value (I'd had a few). Like I mentioned to Gareth though, I don't see how it can harm SAFC since it is Madrox who owe him it. Way I see it all that means is that, when we're sold, he might get very slightly more than 74% of the proceeds (because he'd also be due the interest on the loan and, with SAFC the only asset of Madrox, I'm guessing that would come out of the sale price, effectively giving him a little bit more and Methven and Sartori a little bit less. But I'd imagine it would be small figures either way, and like I say I don't see how it could affect the club so, unless I'm missing something, I'm not really concerned if he charges Madrox interest!
 
GarethQ said:
So, basically. Madrox have loaned SAFC money. The interest was 6.5% above the base rate offered by HSBC at the time the loan was taken. The documents are in the public domain but buried on companies house. RAWA have been pursuing an answer on this from Donald. When Donald was challenged on this he stated it was ‘an accident’. So Madrox will be making money/would’ve made money from this loan.

Owners do loan money to clubs with interest. It’s not unusual. But Donald has basically loaned himself money and is paying it back to himself, in this instance.

I’m sure he’ll clear it up in time though...
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As far as I can see, Madrox haven't loaned SAFC money. The £9m came into the club as new shares. It makes no sense for Madrox to lend the club money when there's a substantial balance owed to the club by them.
 
Guinness Guzzler said:
That seems to be the FPP one. This is a random loan from Donald to Madrox, but there's no note of it that I can see on the Madrox page. Iirc it was about £7m at 6.5% above base rate interest, but I might be completely wrong about the value (I'd had a few). Like I mentioned to Gareth though, I don't see how it can harm SAFC since it is Madrox who owe him it. Way I see it all that means is that, when we're sold, he might get very slightly more than 74% of the proceeds (because he'd also be due the interest on the loan and, with SAFC the only asset of Madrox, I'm guessing that would come out of the sale price, effectively giving him a little bit more and Methven and Sartori a little bit less. But I'd imagine it would be small figures either way, and like I say I don't see how it could affect the club so, unless I'm missing something, I'm not really concerned if he charges Madrox interest!
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That's the document that gives FPP scecurity over SAFC assets (in this case, the AoL). There's a similar document in Sunderland Ltd covering the charge over the SOL, and yet another in Madrox giving the security over its shares in Sunderland Ltd. In all cases, the borrower is identified as Madrox.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
As far as I can see, Madrox haven't loaned SAFC money. The £9m came into the club as new shares. It makes no sense for Madrox to lend the club money when there's a substantial balance owed to the club by them.
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There are two people saying they’ve seen paperwork suggesting it’s true tbf
The Albanian said:
There are two people saying they’ve seen paperwork suggesting it’s true tbf
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have they still not paid back what the club lent them
 
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