The bairns homework

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Lexingtongue said:
I sent my recent book to my American pal to proofread and they were bringing up all sorts of things I'd never even heard of. I kind of wished I hadn't sent it once I waded through the plethora of comments. :lol:
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Regarding ending a sentence with a preposition, one of Churchill’s editors upbraided him for doing this, and his response was “this is the kind of nitpicking foolishness up with which I am completely fed”:lol:

monkeytassle said:
I'm good at maths and the sciences but poor at English. I also don't need to know what an adverb is to do my job. I'm OK with that.
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Exactly my point when teaching undergrad exercise physiology and being ‘schooled’ on prepositions by one of my students!
 
Lexingtongue said:
I've written three books (one of which did really well) and I only have the most rudimentary understanding of them. :lol:
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I think the teaching of them can be a barrier to people writing, and writing well. We had a couple of guest speakers at the Writing Festival last week, both successful. One is even in the Guinness Book of Records for her publishing deal and they said they didn't enjoy English at school because of the way it was taught.
I'm not sure if much has changed since I was there but it put me off learning.
 
I couldn't give a monkeys what an adverb is or isn't or any of that, because I've never had to think about it... Until now. I may or may not have been taught it when I was 7 but if that's the case it was a long time ago and I can't remember it now.
tenpins said:
It will get much tougher as they get older.
Maths is a nightmare.
I had to get tutors for my two to get them through GCSE.
Best money I ever spent.
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I can't wait for the tougher maths and science stuff because I might have a chance. And if I can't do it a pal of mine teaches maths so hopefully he'll be able to help.
 
RestlessNatives said:
I think the teaching of them can be a barrier to people writing, and writing well. We had a couple of guest speakers at the Writing Festival last week, both successful. One is even in the Guinness Book of Records for her publishing deal and they said they didn't enjoy English at school because of the way it was taught.
I'm not sure if much has changed since I was there but it put me off learning.
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If I'm being honest, as long as something reads back to me nicely, I couldn't give a scooby if the sentence is structured based on rigid English rules. I read Joe Hill's lauded first novel recently and that was all over the place in parts, bad enough that even I could pick up on things. Still did well, though.
 
5underland said:
I know I'm not the only one pulling my hair out over kids homework (or what I have left of it), but bloody hell, this is a 7yr olds homework. I've had to use Google to find out about nouns, verbs, adjectives etc, I've not got a f***ing clue. I've never worried or even thought about stuff like this in years. In fact, I don't remember even doing that at school and I got an A at gcse(look at me, blah blah).
I've no idea how to go about explaining this lot to a 7yr old.
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Was the GCSE A for Art or Metalwork?
 
Doberman said:
that only works if the verb & adverb combo can be replaced by a singular word.

ran quickly can be replaced by sprinted.
sat quietly can be replaced by...?

Ha'way the adverbs. :cool:
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Sat in silence would be preferable.
They exist in the English language so have a place but they lead to lazy writing and should be used sparingly.;)
 
RestlessNatives said:
Sat in silence would be preferable.
They exist in the English language so have a place but they lead to lazy writing and should be used sparingly.;)
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but they weren't sat in silence. They were sat quietly. You've jumped from being quiet (making minimal noise) to being totally silent (making no noise). Try again. ;)
 
Tex said:
You got an A in English?

You missed the possessive apostrophe in your title mate.

Over here yanks are obsessed with sentence structure terminology. When I was teaching at the university (not English!) I asked a student “where’s Kim at?” And she replied sarcastically “at the end of a preposition” and went on to say you should never end a sentence with a preposition. I laughed and told her I didn’t even know what a preposition was, and the extent of what I’d ever learned was noun, verb, adjective, adverb, subject and object. We just don’t (didn’t) bother with all that when aa were a lad!
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Tut tut! The correct response was "Fvck off".
 
Doberman said:
but they weren't sat in silence. They were sat quietly. You've jumped from being quiet (making minimal noise) to being totally silent (making no noise). Try again. ;)
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I said 'sat in silence would be preferable'. I'd prefer them to be silent.;)
We can all play this game.
As I said earlier, adverbs have their place however they are overused. The first example you gave was the perfect example of when a better word could be found.
Anyway, Stephen King knows far more about writing than either of us and this is his view.


The adverb is not your friend.

Adverbs … are words that modify verbs, adjectives, or other adverbs. They’re the ones that usually end in -ly. Adverbs, like the passive voice, seem to have been created with the timid writer in mind. … With adverbs, the writer usually tells us he or she is afraid he/she isn’t expressing himself/herself clearly, that he or she is not getting the point or the picture across.

Consider the sentence He closed the door firmly. It’s by no means a terrible sentence (at least it’s got an active verb going for it), but ask yourself if firmly really has to be there. You can argue that it expresses a degree of difference between He closed the door and He slammed the door, and you’ll get no argument from me … but what about context? What about all the enlightening (not to say emotionally moving) prose which came before He closed the door firmly? Shouldn’t this tell us how he closed the door? And if the foregoing prose does tell us, isn’t firmly an extra word? Isn’t it redundant?

Someone out there is now accusing me of being tiresome and anal-retentive. I deny it. I believe the road to hell is paved with adverbs, and I will shout it from the rooftops. To put it another way, they’re like dandelions. If you have one on your lawn, it looks pretty and unique. If you fail to root it out, however, you find five the next day . . . fifty the day after that . . . and then, my brothers and sisters, your lawn is totally, completely, and profligately covered with dandelions. By then you see them for the weeds they really are, but by then it’s — GASP!! — too late.

I can be a good sport about adverbs, though. Yes I can. With one exception: dialogue attribution. I insist that you use the adverb in dialogue attribution only in the rarest and most special of occasions . . . and not even then, if you can avoid it. Just to make sure we all know what we’re talking about, examine these three sentences:

‘Put it down!’ she shouted.
‘Give it back,’ he pleaded, ‘it’s mine.’
‘Don’t be such a fool, Jekyll,’ Utterson said.

In these sentences, shouted, pleaded, and said are verbs of dialogue attribution. Now look at these dubious revisions:

‘Put it down! she shouted menacingly.
‘Give it back,’ he pleaded abjectly, ‘it’s mine.’
‘Don’t be such a fool, Jekyll,’ Utterson said contemptuously.

The three latter sentences are all weaker than the three former ones, and most readers will see why immediately.
 
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