Moyes needs much more time.....

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samsafc said:
He created this first 11.
All he had to do was buy M'VILA and yedlin to recreate last year's team. Instead he spunked 25M on shite and made some of the worst loan signings we've made since coming back up
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This old shite again.
 


Lonz said:
OK, so we've had one good manager in the past 10 years? We've sacked all the rest. We didn't get rid of him, he left us. Most people wanted Allardyce to stay but who's more qualified out there to get the most out of a poor side on paper? Genuinely question. So yes, law of averages. Griping on about not having Allardyce anymore is quite pathetic really. It's the reality we live in.
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I'm fully aware Allardyce walked out on us, but he left us with a half decent squad. A good manager should have been able to pick up where he left off. I was pleased with his appointment initially, but his performance since has changed my mind. We need to make a change asap, otherwise we are destined for the championship.
 
The most sensible thing may be to tailor the squad so its ready to bounce back up with a blend of hungry young players with a sprinkle of older talent.

Could also try the Newcastle approach of making a bug splurge in January in the hope of staying up.

Perhaps the optimum would be somewhere in the middle, with a strong championship base built, but also signing a few proven quality players in the hope of scraping survival again.

WHD said:
I'm fully aware Allardyce walked out on us, but he left us with a half decent squad.
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Half decent is the word - it was way short on numbers and injury crises have cost teams dear in the past, even with larger squads
 
WHD said:
I'm fully aware Allardyce walked out on us, but he left us with a half decent squad. A good manager should have been able to pick up where he left off. I was pleased with his appointment initially, but his performance since has changed my mind. We need to make a change asap, otherwise we are destined for the championship.
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Half of that same squad are injured at the moment. How is that Moyes's fault? What's your alternative plan? Who would you have instead? If I'm perfectly honest, I think we're destined for the Championship anyway.

WHD said:
Wtf? He didn't need to improve the team, all he had to do was maintain the performance. He's overseen 2 points from 8 , which is a massive drop from 27 from 19.
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You're really not thinking pragmatically at all.
 
Lonz said:
Half of that same squad are injured at the moment. How is that Moyes's fault? What's your alternative plan? Who would you have instead? If I'm perfectly honest, I think we're destined for the Championship anyway.
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Bruce seemed to be plagued with injuries. He was a shit maanger as well.
It is feasible Moyes's methods are partly responsible for injuries.
 
WHD said:
Wtf? He didn't need to improve the team, all he had to do was maintain the performance. He's overseen 2 points from 8 , which is a massive drop from 27 from 19.
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You cannot maintain performance when you have never been able to field the same 11 twice, the most important players are injured on and off, and you lack quality in key areas.

Borini and Cattermole are big misses, Kirchoff is injured as usual and Kone has been lazy all season
 
MrBraithwaite said:
You cannot maintain performance when you have never been able to field the same 11 twice, the most important players are injured on and off, and you lack quality in key areas.

Borini and Cattermole are big misses, Kirchoff is injured as usual and Kone has been lazy all season
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Even a 50% reduction in performance would have been almost acceptable. The reduction in performance we are witnessing is totally unacceptable.
 
WHD said:
Even a 50% reduction in performance would have been almost acceptable. The reduction in performance we are witnessing is totally unacceptable.
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Aye, but you have to bear in mind that not only has the teams performance level dropped for numerous reasons, but you are also playing fresh hungry teams in every game. Come end of season you can play a team that s better on paper, but downed tools due to settling for mid-table, looking forward to summer, etc
 
MrBraithwaite said:
Aye, but you have to bear in mind that not only has the teams performance level dropped for numerous reasons, but you are also playing fresh hungry teams in every game. Come end of season you can play a team that s better on paper, but downed tools due to settling for mid-table, looking forward to summer, etc
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Ah, okay. It's the opposition that are better, not us getting shitter? Got it.
 
WHD said:
Bruce seemed to be plagued with injuries. He was a shit maanger as well.
It is feasible Moyes's methods are partly responsible for injuries.
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So you don't actually have a suggestion and just having a whinge? Fair enough if so, just don't want to waste me time think I'm actually debating with someone.

I'm really not sure how people are supposed to judge a manager's performance any more? You've just said that Allardyce was the best thing since sliced bread but called Bruce for getting us to 10th which is, whether you like it/him or not, one of our highest finishes for 50 years.

WHD said:
Ah, okay. It's the opposition that are better, not us getting shitter? Got it.
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Well.. a league is relative so I don't understand what difference it makes.
 
WHD said:
Ah, okay. It's the opposition that are better, not us getting shitter? Got it.
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It's both. Anyone who saw Stoke last week against Man Utd would have felt the odds were high they would get a win. They have players like Arnautovic, who is class, and even have someone like Charlie Adam on the bench
 
Ilios said:
How many months shall we go without a win, before we sack him? 3? 4? No wins in August, September and unless we beat WHU or Arsenal, add October aswell. If we fail to beat WHU, it will officially be the worst start we've ever had to a PL season. It is early I know, but we are frantically shit, and a lot of that is down to his decision-making.

- Signed Ndong for 13m, Djilobodji for 8m, McNair for 5m and Love for 500k; so he's had some money.
- Chose not to sign a striker, and then signed a permanently 'not ready' one on a free, who is allergic to everything other than the bench it appears (even when 2-0 down, he gets 8 minutes!)
- Chose to select every possible man and his dog ahead of Khazri, for absolutely no reason.
- Horrific defensively, despite permanently having 900 men behind the ball, each marking nobody in particular

He has overseen a spate of injuries to be fair, which has been unfortunate.
However, the point stands. He chose who he did and didn't sign, he chooses the formation, the team, the use of subs and the tactics. We have 2 points from 8 games; a worse record than PDC, Advocaat etc...(take your pick)
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Despite this being a marginally more balanced post than many of those by Moyes' critics on this thread, there's still some proper drivel in there.

- He tried to sign strikers all through the window but it didn't happen for various reasons out of his control. Naismith changed his mind about coming on deadline day, for example.
- Failing all that, rather than spunk away millions on a shite striker at the last minute (Danny Graham anyone?), he brought in a striker with Premiership experience for free.
- Anichebe needed time to get match fit. This is completely normal. It's why we have pre-season training and friendly matches. He missed that this year so has had to play catch-up with the rest of the squad. Again completely normal.
- If you think it's for no reason that he was leaving out Khazri, you must be shrooming.
- It's called a "zonal" marking system and it is the only way to make it possible for your full-backs to get forward without leaving a hole that can be exploited on either side. Its other advantage over a "man-marking" system is that it means your centre-backs can't be pulled out of position tracking off-the-ball runs towards the corner flags by the opposition strikers that would leave a hole for opposing attacking midfielders to get through. It's pretty much universally used in football nowadays rather than man-marking. Defensive mistakes on the pitch have cost us the goals, not the defensive system we employ.

He has had less than one transfer window to analyse the team and decide who we needed to keep, who we needed to get rid of, what positions we needed to fill, and try to sort out who to bring in. With the exception of Kaboul, everyone he got rid of were players considered "deadwood" by the fans. Kaboul leaving wasn't Moyes' choice, it was Kaboul's.

Djilibodji was meant to be a long-term backup/replacement for Kaboul who would learn under him, not a direct immediate replacement that would be expected to play immediately.

As Moyes has said all along, he's trying to build a team for the future by buying players who aren't ready yet but have the potential to be class acts once they've matured. Players who may well turn out to be of the sort who would never choose to sign for us once they've hit their prime, but will hopefully by then have been bitten by the SAFC bug and want to stay, but even if they decide to leave for better things we'll end up making a profit on them. Unfortunately, injuries throughout the team and Kaboul leaving out of the blue has meant that these young lads for the future have ended up playing WAY more than Moyes had planned.

None of this is rocket surgery to comprehend, and yet so many people are choosing to ignore it all because they want to point a finger at someone - a target that they can direct all their anger towards because we've not been getting results yet - and Moyes is their target of choice right now. Unfortunately, sometimes in life we have to accept that things out of our control can screw up even the best-laid plans of the finest men. This is one of those times.
 
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