Completely see your point mate. But when you've spent 18M on 2 other CM's who aren't as good it defeats the object of trying to get Mvila on the cheap
Moyes needs much more time.....
- Thread starter dcl0sc
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WHD
Striker
Yeah, Ferguson was building a team to win things, hence he could "afford" a few seasons of underachievement. If we underachieve we go down. Ferguson's blueprint doesn't apply to clubs like us.
Lonz
Striker
You're talking yourself into a corner here. He made mistakes and went seasons without winning things. Relatively, it would have been as much of a disaster for them to not qualify for Europe under his watch. It's all relative mate. Wanting instant success, no matter where you are in the league is unrealistic and likely not sustainable. People forget there are 19 other teams in the league trying to stop you from doing what you want to do. Changing what you want to do every season makes things harder for us just as much as anyone else.
fyl2u
Striker
The other 2 CMs are young lads that have been forced to play before they're ready for Premiership starts because of our injury situation.
The idea was supposed to be that if given time to develop, they'll eventually be either good players for us that feel a connection with the club and with their long-term teammates, or if not we'll still be able to sell them on for a tidy profit.
It's way too early to judge whether they'll turn into the players Moyes thinks they will. We need to be looking at those two signings in 2 or 3 years' time to judge whether they've been a success or not.
WHD
Striker
I don't want instant success, I'll be happy with stopping up like the last 9 seasons. The way it's going, we're going to be worse than under Mccarthy. But hey, let's not get above ourselves and want "instant success "
Richie K
Striker
I agree, even tho were shit under Big Sam for the first half of last season, i could see he was the right man for the job and had been dealt a bad hand.
However, under Moyes i cant see it. Maybe he is suffering because he can't have a derby win under his belt early doors compared to his predecessors.
everstar
Striker
He's been our manager for about 800 minutes of premier league football. That's enough time man. If we sack managers at that rate we could have 4 a season.
We weren't in a position to buy for the future though. So once again we have passed money up the wall as when we get relegated this players values will at least half
Confucius
Striker
And 9 points
everstar
Striker
9 points a season? Possibly aye.
Johnnyh
Winger
Are you serious.
Daffy
Striker
I admire your backing for our under fire boss
Given time will he turn it around ?
As much as I really want to stick with one guy & give them time to rebuild the team his signings to date have been terrible
Unfortunately this is a results business & he is deservedly under fire
He won't last long
Ilios
Winger
In tribute to our performances at the moment, the following will be arranged in no particular order...
1. What the fuck is 'rocket surgery'?
Our performances certainly appear as incoherent and nonsensical as that at the moment.2. Kaboul (according to Moyes himself) had expressed a desire to leave prior to Djilobodji's signing. Even if this wasn't the case, Moyes would be even more stupid wasting £8m on a shit, back-up CB, who is 28 years old, yet is bizarrely being perceived as having 'potential'. The idea that, with gaping holes to fill in other areas, we were actively looking to spend a 3rd of our budget on a back up CB is f***ing nonsense.
3. I'm pleased our CBs haven't been dragged 'out of position'. The fact that we concede 3 goals every week is easier to bear once I tell myself that Djilobodi stayed in his zone whilst they all flew in. By the way, it isn't used by Atletico Madrid, who are best defensive side in the world. It also wasn't used by us under Sam, and look at the difference in both organisation and individual errors. Nobody knows what the fuck they're doing.
4. Naismith isn't a 'striker'. He's no more a striker than Khazri or Watmore
5. False dichotomy. It isn't a case of we sign Victor Anichebe, or Danny Graham. There was literally no point in signing Anichebe, if he is only fit enough to play 8 minutes at 2-0 down, 7 weeks after signing. By the time he's actually up to speed, the f***ing window will be open again, and Borini will be fit anyway. The whole point of bringing a striker in was to cover the fact that Borini is pretty much the only back up to Defoe, and that hasn't really changed because Anichebe hasn't been bloody available either; he's played 4 minutes and 8 minutes as a sub, in 6/7 weeks...the PL experience thing doesn't hold water either. Steven Fletcher has PL experience, and a better record in it than VA. Danny Graham (your example) also had PL experience, and if we want to be even more silly, so has Jozy Altidore...I'm not commenting specifically on VA's ability, I'm saying that signing short-term cover because of injuries is fairly useless if the cover itself is 3 years away from match fitness.
6. Well, if anybody has an idea, I'd like to hear it. Moyes said he was leaving Khazri out for 'giving the ball away', yet this is nonsense, because he left him out at Man City on day 1, when he hadn't played a single minute; you can't give the ball away if you've never been on the pitch in the 1st place, that's the cart pulling the horse. 'He was fat and unfit' is what I anticipate will come out next. Was he? He played every game in pre-season until Moyes turned up, and then Moyes signed an unfit, 35 year old who has spent half of his time limping on and off the field, has played about 15 minutes in 2 seasons and played him out wide instead of Khazri...It is only when forced by a series of injuries that Khazri even got an opportunity at all, and has been one of our best players since.
7. I accept that, I know, and I don't have a go at him entirely for that. Circumstances were shite, and we had little time. However, he basically needed to replace 3 players from last seasons team (a team that barely lost in months); Yedlin, M'Vila and Kaboul. Have they been adequately replaced? Also, he's made the squad tiny, and then got a host of injuries, and had to sign other freebies (who then subsequently got injured, or are generally unfit) to cover the players we let go. He's also changed the formation slightly (which was completely unnecessary) and played all sorts of players in Khazri's position, instead of just playing Khazri, which we've finally reverted to anyway. He's started Watmore too much, when he is an impact sub at his best right now (although he has been forced into now, with injuries and a tiny squad). We had Gooch in the side for a while, who did alright and then has not been involved in weeks, in favour of playing Rodwell, McNair, Pienaar etc who've all done fuck all.
This is the worst start to a season that I can remember, and comes off the back of our best finish to a season in years. And I'll return to the problem I previously posed, which wasn't answered - How long do we continue the employment of a win-less manager? 10 games? 12 games? 4 years?
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Daffy
Striker
The first 3 pages were goodIn tribute to our performances at the moment, the following will be arranged in no particular order...
1. What the fuck is 'rocket surgery'?
2. Kaboul (according to Moyes himself) had expressed a desire to leave prior to Djilobodji's signing. Even if this wasn't the case, Moyes would be even more stupid wasting £8m on a shit, back-up CB, who is 28 years old, yet is staggeringly been perceived as having 'potential'. The idea that, with gaping holes to fill in other areas, we'd were spend a 3rd of our budget on a back up CB is f***ing nonsense.
3. I'm pleased our CBs haven't been dragged 'out of position'. The fact that we concede 3 goals every week is easier to bear once I tell myself that Djilobodi stayed in his zone whilst they all flew in. By the way, it isn't used by Atletico Madrid, who are best defensive side in the world. It also wasn't used by us under Sam, and look at the difference in both organisation and individual errors. Nobody knows what the fuck they're doing.
4. Naismith isn't a 'striker'. He's no more a striker than Khazri or Watmore
5. False dichotomy. It isn't a case of we sign Victor Anichebe, or Danny Graham. There was literally no point in signing Anichebe, if he is only fit enough to play 8 minutes at 2-0 down, 7 weeks after signing. By the time he's actually up to speed, the f***ing window will be open again, and Borini will be fit anyway. The whole point of bringing a striker in was to cover the fact that Borini is pretty much the only back up to Defoe, and that hasn't really changed because Anichebe hasn't been bloody available either; he's played 4 minutes and 8 minutes as a sub, in 6/7 weeks...the PL experience thing doesn't hold water either. Steven Fletcher has PL experience, and a better record in it than VA. Danny Graham (your example) also had PL experience, and if we want to be even more silly, so has Jozy Altidore...I'm not commenting specifically on VA's ability, I'm saying that signing short-term cover because of injuries is fairly useless if the cover itself is 3 years away from match fitness.
6. Well, if anybody has an idea, I'd like to hear it. Moyes said he was leaving Khazri out for 'giving the ball away', yet this is nonsense, because he left him out at Man City on day 1, when he hadn't played a single minute; you can't give the ball away if you've never been on the pitch in the 1st place, that's the cart pulling the horse. 'He was fat and unfit' is what I anticipate will come out next. Was he? He played every game in pre-season until Moyes turned up, and then Moyes signed an unfit, 35 year old who has spent half of his time limping on and off the field, has played about 15 minutes in 2 seasons and played him out wide instead of Khazri...It is only when forced by a series of injuries that Khazri even got an opportunity at all, and has been one of our best players since.
7. I accept that, I know, and I don't have a go at him entirely for that. Circumstances were shite, and we had little time. However, he basically needed to replace 3 players from last seasons team (a team that barely lost in months); Yedlin, M'Vila and Kaboul. Have they been adequately replaced? Also, he's made the squad tiny, and then got a host of injuries, and had to sign other freebies (who then subsequently got injured, or are generally unfit) to cover the players we let go. He's also changed the formation slightly (which was completely unnecessary) and played all sorts of players in Khazri's position, instead of just playing Khazri, which we've finally reverted to anyway. He's started Watmore too much, when he is an impact sub at his best right now (although he has been forced into now, with injuries and a tiny squad). We had Gooch in the side for a while, who did alright and then has not been involved in weeks, in favour of playing Rodwell, McNair, Pienaar etc who've all done fuck all.
This is the worst start to a season that I can remember, and comes off the back of our best finish to a season in years. And I'll return to the problem I previously posed, which wasn't answered - How long do we continue the employment of a win-less manager? 10 games? 12 games? 4 years?
Gonna read another chapter tmro then finish it midweek
fyl2u
Striker
Many were saying we were 2 signings away from having a serisously competitive team. Weren't you saying earlier in the thread something very similar?
If that's not a good position to be in to be thinking about buying players for the future, I don't know when is.
In central midfield we already had Kirchhoff, Cattermole, Larsson when he's fit again, Rodwell (who I think gets way more stick than he deserves), and hopefully M'Vila coming in a few months for free. On paper, buying a couple of talented young lads for the future and bringing in Pienaar as an experienced head sounds like a good strategy in the situation we were in.
The Situation
Striker
Posted this elsewhere, but:
Confining us to a relegation battle on the second week of the season, 90 minutes before he declared in the pre-match interview that he was looking up.
- 1 point from home games with Boro, Palace, West Brom and Everton.
- Inability to see games out when we take a lead
- Poor team selection and in-game decisions. Waiting until Januzaj was injured until he had no choice but to start using Khazri (who is the only player we have that looks capable of creating anything) being a prime example.
- £30m spent in the summer and there's virtually nothing to show for it. It has gone up in smoke.
- Covering his own arse and performing damage limitation on his reputation with his comments in the media at the expense of our club
There's almost a quarter of the season gone and I haven't seen one even small positive to take or a sign that things are even going to turn for the better.
It is totally clear that this is just not going to work out. Act quickly and efficiently and move on, giving us as much time as possible to try and turn things around.
People saying stick with him no matter what are on another planet IMO. Why should we reward or accept failure? Do you think Moyes would stick with us if a better offer came in? Like fuck he would.
It seems Moyes' demeanor has also started to suck the life out of many of our fans.
Confining us to a relegation battle on the second week of the season, 90 minutes before he declared in the pre-match interview that he was looking up.
- 1 point from home games with Boro, Palace, West Brom and Everton.
- Inability to see games out when we take a lead
- Poor team selection and in-game decisions. Waiting until Januzaj was injured until he had no choice but to start using Khazri (who is the only player we have that looks capable of creating anything) being a prime example.
- £30m spent in the summer and there's virtually nothing to show for it. It has gone up in smoke.
- Covering his own arse and performing damage limitation on his reputation with his comments in the media at the expense of our club
There's almost a quarter of the season gone and I haven't seen one even small positive to take or a sign that things are even going to turn for the better.
It is totally clear that this is just not going to work out. Act quickly and efficiently and move on, giving us as much time as possible to try and turn things around.
People saying stick with him no matter what are on another planet IMO. Why should we reward or accept failure? Do you think Moyes would stick with us if a better offer came in? Like fuck he would.
It seems Moyes' demeanor has also started to suck the life out of many of our fans.
billyboy
Winger
What about the 11 who are injured?
Royal 8er
Winger
Not sure I'd be so outrageous in my condemnation however I agree with the underlying sentiments.
Love allardyce back me.
Dodgy bugger but best man for the job and best manager we've ever had.
Give him the time reid had and he'd syrpass him imo
W
Ward1973
Guest
The ONLY thing that will happen if Moyes is given more time is if we et relegated and try rebuild in the championship. Try for promotion next season.
Naa! I'd give him a fiver and ask for a packet of haribos and a can of coke. He'd come back with bottle of watter and an apple and tell me "I didn't have enough time in the shop"
Naa! I'd give him a fiver and ask for a packet of haribos and a can of coke. He'd come back with bottle of watter and an apple and tell me "I didn't have enough time in the shop"
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