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Allardyce and his obsession with...

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Sima said:
Your original point was that Allardyce was at a club that is 'mid-table at best' in 2007. You can't add the 9 years that have followed to back up your point.

My rebuttal was that we weren't a 'mid-table at best' side when Allardyce took over.
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In two out of the three seasons prior to his arrival you's were.

The Fish said:
Has he? Or has he spent money that the club generates (from the ridiculous TV deals)? He's not exactly a Sugar Daddy, is he?

Would Chelsea or Man City be considered "big boys" over the last 50 yrs? Would Everton? Would Spurs? It's basically Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United & various also-rans.
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Newcastle were in a shitload of debt when ashley came in were they not? All top flight clubs get big TV deals and they haven't all spent as much as you lot. Biggest spenders in Europe last transfer window. Problem gif clubs like Newcastle is the inability to attract the top players.
Chelsea and Man city had strong sides in the 70s and both clubs in last ten year have cemented themselves as big hitters, probably 15 year on Chelsea's case.
I wouldn't say Everton are one of top clubs, Spurs are getting there and it took a British manager to give them that platform.

cbwhu said:
probably got the hump watching a foreign coach take over his old squad and in the first year in this country beat the best top flight points total Allardyce has achieved in his 25 year managerial career
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Can't knock the job Bilic has done but he was given a good platform from allardyce. Be interesting to see if Bilic can sustain it.
 
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Mrjardine said:
In two out of the three seasons prior to his arrival you's were.


Newcastle were in a shitload of debt when ashley came in were they not? All top flight clubs get big TV deals and they haven't all spent as much as you lot. Biggest spenders in Europe last transfer window. Problem gif clubs like Newcastle is the inability to attract the top players.
Chelsea and Man city had strong sides in the 70s and both clubs in last ten year have cemented themselves as big hitters, probably 15 year on Chelsea's case.
I wouldn't say Everton are one of top clubs, Spurs are getting there and it took a British manager to give them that platform.


Can't knock the job Bilic has done but he was given a good platform from allardyce. Be interesting to see if Bilic can sustain it.
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We did spend a lot, but, as has been covered before, it lays bare the lack of investment we endured in the seasons that preceded it. And again, this isn't Ashley's personal funds, this is cash generated by the club itself (mostly through the TV deal). Some clubs have used those funds to invest in their facilities, some in their infrastructure, some on wages, we splurged on fees to try and arrest the slide that was created by niggardly spending beforehand.


I think it is awfully generous to give credit to Sherwood (or Redknapp) for the football Pochettino has wrought from those players. Similarly Bilic deserves plaudits for the football, not Allardyce.
 
Mrjardine said:
In two out of the three seasons prior to his arrival you's were.


Newcastle were in a shitload of debt when ashley came in were they not? All top flight clubs get big TV deals and they haven't all spent as much as you lot. Biggest spenders in Europe last transfer window. Problem gif clubs like Newcastle is the inability to attract the top players.
Chelsea and Man city had strong sides in the 70s and both clubs in last ten year have cemented themselves as big hitters, probably 15 year on Chelsea's case.
I wouldn't say Everton are one of top clubs, Spurs are getting there and it took a British manager to give them that platform.


Can't knock the job Bilic has done but he was given a good platform from allardyce. Be interesting to see if Bilic can sustain it.
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he was and Bilic has acknowledged that! Though adding Payet, Lanzini and Antonio to that for under 25m was outstanding work!
 
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Mrjardine said:
In two out of the three seasons prior to his arrival you's were.


Newcastle were in a shitload of debt when ashley came in were they not? All top flight clubs get big TV deals and they haven't all spent as much as you lot. Biggest spenders in Europe last transfer window. Problem gif clubs like Newcastle is the inability to attract the top players.
Chelsea and Man city had strong sides in the 70s and both clubs in last ten year have cemented themselves as big hitters, probably 15 year on Chelsea's case.
I wouldn't say Everton are one of top clubs, Spurs are getting there and it took a British manager to give them that platform.


Can't knock the job Bilic has done but he was given a good platform from allardyce. Be interesting to see if Bilic can sustain it.
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:lol:

So you're narrowing it to three years now to prove your point?

I refer to my logic for Man City point then.
 
cbwhu said:
he was and Bilic has acknowledged that! Though adding Payet, Lanzini and Antonio to that for under 25m was outstanding work!
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How many of Allardyce's purchases are integral to your good season? (Not being argumentative, genuinely curious)
 
Sima said:
:lol:

So you're narrowing it to three years now to prove your point?

I refer to my logic for Man City point then.
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Man City are a freak example due to resources. Three seasons is a long time in football and given what's happened since it would seem whst happened under KK and Sir Bobby was tvs exception rather than the rule as I've already said.

The Fish said:
We did spend a lot, but, as has been covered before, it lays bare the lack of investment we endured in the seasons that preceded it. And again, this isn't Ashley's personal funds, this is cash generated by the club itself (mostly through the TV deal). Some clubs have used those funds to invest in their facilities, some in their infrastructure, some on wages, we splurged on fees to try and arrest the slide that was created by niggardly spending beforehand.


I think it is awfully generous to give credit to Sherwood (or Redknapp) for the football Pochettino has wrought from those players. Similarly Bilic deserves plaudits for the football, not Allardyce.
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Why should ashley invest his personal funds and how could he anyway due to FFP?
I'm crediting Redknapp with putting Spurs back on the football map. Poch has done superb and surpassed what Harry done but Let's see if pochettino can better the 1/4s of the champions league ey.
 
The Fish said:
How many of Allardyce's purchases are integral to your good season? (Not being argumentative, genuinely curious)
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Hard to say, Sam very publicly had transfer control taken away from him in the preceeding summer, so is difficult to say who signed any players that year (Cresswell, Kouyate, Sakho) would be the three mainly affected there who've payed a big role

We can rule Sakho out as Sam wanted to pay 6m to you for Wickham till Sullivan stepped in. The other two hard to say who really signed them. Adrian, Carroll and Collins definately his

Although not a Sam signing I will give him huge credit for developing Winston Reid into the player he is today
 
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Mrjardine said:
Man City are a freak example due to resources. Three seasons is a long time in football and given what's happened since it would seem whst happened under KK and Sir Bobby was tvs exception rather than the rule as I've already said.


Why should ashley invest his personal funds and how could he anyway due to FFP?
I'm crediting Redknapp with putting Spurs back on the football map. Poch has done superb and surpassed what Harry done but Let's see if pochettino can better the 1/4s of the champions league ey.
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You said he'd spent a lot.

He hasn't.
 
cbwhu said:
Hard to say, Sam very publicly had transfer control taken away from him in the preceding summer, so is difficult to say who signed any players that year (Cresswell, Kouyate, Sakho) would be the three mainly affected there who've played a big role

We can rule Sakho out as Sam wanted to pay 6m to you for Wickham till Sullivan stepped in. The other two hard to say who really signed them. Carroll and Collins definitely his

Although not a Sam signing I will give him huge credit for developing Winston Reid into the player he is today
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Steady now, Newcastle fan here.

Had Bilic come in sooner, do you think he'd have been able to improve on what came before Sam Allardyce to get you to this point (or near as doesn't matter)? So essentially, had Bilic replaced Grant (or Zola) would you been challenging for 4th in 2015/16? Or did you need Allardyce's input first?
 
impossible to say really, we certainly needed the job Sam did doing ( getting promoted, steadying the ship) wether anyone else could have done it as I say there no way of knowing

Was very impressed with Bilic during the period we lost Sakho, Carroll, Payet, Lanzini, Valencia and Moses all at once (basically our entire front 4 that had done so well and most of their back ups) for those 7 games he turned us very much into a more Sam like side and although we drew a lot we only lost one match in that period
 
Mrjardine said:
As far as mid level premier league clubs go you's have spent a reasonable amount.
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Last 5 years

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West Ham gross - 120.6m*
West Ham Net - 98.6m*

Newcastle gross - 164.5m
Newcastle net - 96.3m

Sunderland gross - 121.4m
Sunderland net - 61.8m



* includes a year in the championship
 
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cbwhu said:
Last 5 years

You must be logged on to see external links



West Ham gross - 120.6m*
West Ham Net - 98.6m*

Newcastle gross - 164.5m
Newcastle net - 96.3m

Sunderland gross - 121.4m
Sunderland net - 61.8m



* includes a year in the championship
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So mags have spent nearly 100m net and that still isn't good enough for them? That also includes a season in championship. Not sure what they want to be honest.
 
rowley2 said:
Because he has been here for six years, signed a load of players for stacks of cash who are shite and are on massive contracts and is not an alchemist who can turn the present crop into a Real Madrid overnight.
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Well put.
 
If you could pick any manager in the world from a list.. How long before you chosed an English one?

Dinosaurs stuck in the past most of them I fear.
 
2 years before that I think, we signed Nolan when we were in the Championship off them when he'd been their top scorer in the Premier League
 
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