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This'll be the Torygrapgh barred in Liverpool

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Morse said:
I shouldn't, but :lol:

To the tune of Que sera, sera...

He's a wog, a wog
It's plain to see, to see
He's blacker than you or me
He's a wog, a wog.

Is that the one? It was sung quite often back in the day. Not nice at all, but different times then.
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First song I was taught. Was sang about Vince Hilare?

Shocking when you think about it
 

Dogbark said:
I found an old article
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that confirms they were all free still at that point.
I came across another article earlier that reported the sentences being increased to 4 and 5 years (meaning some of them would have been jailed for 20 months) yet this isn't reported on your link. Which makes me think the person who wrote it going by the original sentencing report.
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Seems impossible to find out the actual facts - which is a bit odd.

My hunch is that they were meant to be imprisoned, someone dropped a bollock, and it's been brushed under the carpet since.

Nee Onions Mate said:
The causes of the Heysel "disaster" were:
Bad condition of the stadium
Bad policing
Nasty Juve supporters
Bad ticketing
Bad organisation
Bad Belgiums

Liverpool fans just couldn't avoid it..My heart goes out to them
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The causes were Liverpool fans. See convictions for details. No one connected to Liverpool have sought to wash their hands of it.

JumpingAnaconda said:
Liverpool have made more fuss over a single player leaving them last week than they have ever done of the people their fans chased to their death in 1985.
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What have you done to honour the Heysel dead?

You must have a memorial in your garden at least, given the fact that Liverpool's permanent memorial, benefit games etc. aren't enough "fuss".
 
rentaghost said:
Pinched from the other thread but the Phil Neal comments in this article really do some him up as a person.

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What a complete **** that man is. f***ing shocking comments, hope his house gets repossessed.
 
Chappers said:
First song I was taught. Was sang about Vince Hilare?

Shocking when you think about it
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I also remember the 'I'd rather be a P@ki than a Mag...' chant. :oops:

I can honestly say I've never joined in with any racist chants, and I started going to matches in the mid 70s. :cool:
My first game was the 6-2 demolition of Sheffield United at RP. Tremendous. My Mother decided we should leave early and we missed two goals and a penalty save in about ten minutes IIRC.
 
not spavin said:
What have you done to honour the Heysel dead?

You must have a memorial in your garden at least, given the fact that Liverpool's permanent memorial, benefit games etc. aren't enough "fuss".
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Why would I? I am not the supporter of a club whose fans chased 39 people to their death. If Liverpool are ready to give half a season worth of fawning over Gerard, and the week in week out tributes to Hillsborough, you would think they might give a little more prominence to remembrance of their fans' mass manslaughter of other fans at Heysel.
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
Why would I? I am not the supporter of a club whose fans chased 39 people to their death. If Liverpool are ready to give half a season worth of fawning over Gerard, and the week in week out tributes to Hillsborough, you would think they might give a little more prominence to remembrance of their fans' mass manslaughter of other fans at Heysel.
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Man alive.

They mark Hillsborough once a year. They mark Heysel once a year.
They have a memorial for Hillsborough at Anfield. They have a memorial for Heysel at Anfield.

Hillsborough is a much bigger deal for 2 blindingly obvious reasons. The first is that it's an ongoing campaign for justice - unlike Heysel. The second is that it involved the deaths of their friends and family - unlike Heysel.

They acknowledge Heysel an appropriate amount, given that those who caused it were held to account. It's fair to say that they didn't always do so, but it's worth noting that the moves to right this wrong was pushed forward by the Hillsborough committee. Accusations of hypocrisy are spectacularly absurd.

And your inference that they should make a bigger deal about Heysel than Gerrard is utterly deranged. Maybe we shouldn't have celebrated the derby wins because of MH17? Maybe Germany should be stripped of their World Cup win because of the Holocaust. OR MAYBE IT'S f***ing SPORT.
 
Pissed Liverpool fans on the rampage at a Cup final cause deaths v pissed Liverpool fans trying to get in without tickets at CupFinal exonerated of blame iirc.
 
Morse said:
Really? I remember cerebral palsy sufferers being referred to as 'spastics', which was and is f***ing horrendous, but calling them spackas was never acceptable.
Even back then you'd likely get a clip if you used that word to refer to a disabled person. It was commonly used, and still is, to take the piss when someone messes up in some way. It's almost used as the Americans use it nowadays, as a jibe when someone does something clumsy. It's still a very dodgy word, though.
The M-word was once widely used to describe Down's Syndrome sufferers, but it has quite rightly become extremely offensive over time. It's censored on here IIRC.
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My point was that people who sang that song were just as likely to use 'spackas'.

I've seen it used on these forums from time to time although it's been rightly jumped on.

Ginger piss biscuit lives on ...... problee 'cos no one knows what the hell it means :lol:
 
not spavin said:
Man alive.

They mark Hillsborough once a year. They mark Heysel once a year.
They have a memorial for Hillsborough at Anfield. They have a memorial for Heysel at Anfield.

Hillsborough is a much bigger deal for 2 blindingly obvious reasons. The first is that it's an ongoing campaign for justice - unlike Heysel. The second is that it involved the deaths of their friends and family - unlike Heysel.
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I.e. it happened to people they cared about rather than people they could not care less about.

not spavin said:
They acknowledge Heysel an appropriate amount, given that those who caused it were held to account. It's fair to say that they didn't always do so, but it's worth noting that the moves to right this wrong was pushed forward by the Hillsborough committee. Accusations of hypocrisy are spectacularly absurd.

And your inference that they should make a bigger deal about Heysel than Gerrard is utterly deranged. Maybe we shouldn't have celebrated the derby wins because of MH17? Maybe Germany should be stripped of their World Cup win because of the Holocaust. OR MAYBE IT'S f***ing SPORT.
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Yes, it is sport, so the day that Liverpool's fans decided to pour rocks upon other fans and chase them to their death, they gave up their right to treat following their team like a carefree pursuit. The Champion Leauge final in 2007 shows they have never come anywhere near learning any of their lessons. Given slightly different circumstances that could easily have ended up as yet another disaster associated with that horrible club.

Even when there was a further inquest into Hillsborough the other week a huge amount was made of how one of the dead was Gerrard's cousin was one of those who died. That is how much they wish to shoehorn the great important of Gerrard into everything. It is pathetic and I am sick of it and I am sick of that club.
 
Maxie said:
I think i can understand peoples sentiment on this sonetimes though.
its as if the whole country has to stand up and take notice every anniversary of Hillsborough, no matter how much time has passed.
Heysel though seems to go under the radar and be a touchy subject. The complete opposite.
i think i can sometimes understand the sentiment & feeling towards Liverpool based on that:neutral:
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Liverpool are holding a memorial ceremony today. You just don't know because Sky Sports haven't mentioned it. That isn't Liverpool's fault.
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
I.e. it happened to people they cared about rather than people they could not care less about.



Yes, it is sport, so the day that Liverpool's fans decided to pour rocks upon other fans and chase them to their death, they gave up their right to treat following their team like a carefree pursuit. The Champion Leauge final in 2007 shows they have never come anywhere near learning any of their lessons. Given slightly different circumstances that could easily have ended up as yet another disaster associated with that horrible club.

Even when there was a further inquest into Hillsborough the other week a huge amount was made of how one of the dead was Gerrard's cousin was one of those who died. That is how much they wish to shoehorn the great important of Gerrard into everything. It is pathetic and I am sick of it and I am sick of that club.
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99.9% of all fans and all clubs are basically the same. Thoroughly decent people, family men and women who care about mankind. It's a bit embarrassing for an adult to hate a club so much. There were fans that died in Heysel because of Liverpool fans actions. The actions of the tiny percentage of Liverpool fans was appalling and beyond comprehension but no better or worse than the actions of many supporters from many clubs around that time and looked back by many unbelievably with a sense of affection. The actions of almost every set of fans in the 70s and 80s could have led to multiple deaths including our own. The fact that 39 people died as a result of a combination of a tiny percentage of Liverpool fans and an unfit stadium doesn't make Liverpool fans any worse than similar actions by other fans that haven't led to deaths because of fortune and circumstance.
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
Yes, it is sport, so the day that Liverpool's fans decided to pour rocks upon other fans and chase them to their death, they gave up their right to treat following their team like a carefree pursuit.
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That is perhaps this most ridiculous thing I've ever read on the SMB.

Reiver said:
Quite a statement that tbh.
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Prove it wrong.

Lots and lots of people are saying this thread that Liverpool distance themselves from Heysel and deny that it was their fan's fault. So it'll be really easy to find loads of examples.
 
Lanchesterredandwhite said:
Excellent article. I always found Phil Neal's comments in this article revealing about what kind of man he is.

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He was talking shit anyway, the lad who wrote that article, Jamie Jackson, lives on my street and his house is rented so Phil Neal didn't pay his mortgage!

Joking aside I remember that article when it was first written, I was a bit to young at the time (7) so it didn't register but it was this article which really made me aware of what a horrific event it really was.

As an outsider looking in, and it's just my opinion, Liverpool are not the only ones who have swept this under the carpet. Juventus have rarely commemorated it either. It’s strange how it rarely gets a mention. A dark night for Football in all kinds of ways, how they reached the decision to play the game is f***ing nuts.
 
JumpingAnaconda said:
For me the fact that masses of Liverpool fans continue to show up to games without tickets with the intention of getting in to the ground shows how little they are ready to take responsibility for themselves. It is easy to forget because there were no fatalities, but even as late as the 2007 Champions League final thousands of Liverpool supporters turned up at the stadium without tickets, and many got in. The Greek police were criticised with how they handled the situation, and for the unpleasantness outside the stadium including the use of tear gas, but they dealt with it a lot better than the police did at Hillsborough. If there had been a crush and fatalities, who would the supporters have been blaming? The police, of course. Not for one second would they point the finger at the thousands of fans who should have been nowhere near there. Even though over 25 years have passed since the Hillsborough disaster nobody at Liverpool seems to want to admit that they have a problem with fans turning up at matches without tickets trying to force their way into matches.
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I'm glad someone else has mentioned this. My Liverpool supporting Brother in Law was there and witnessed LFC fans mugging fellow LFC fans of their tickets. This is a fact, zero lessons have been learnt and if it wasn't for the fact that stadia has improved over the years since these horrible events then we would definitely be counting more bodies.
 
not spavin said:
Prove it wrong.
Lots and lots of people are saying this thread that Liverpool distance themselves from Heysel and deny that it was their fan's fault. So it'll be really easy to find loads of examples.
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:lol:

How can I prove it wrong?

By definition if people refuse to talk about, and ignore it, there won't be any record of their hand washing.

I can't prove it but don't have to believe it.

By the same token you can't prove that 'no one connected to Liverpool have sought to wash their hands of it' can you?
 
rentaghost said:
99.9% of all fans and all clubs are basically the same. Thoroughly decent people, family men and women who care about mankind. It's a bit embarrassing for an adult to hate a club so much. There were fans that died in Heysel because of Liverpool fans actions. The actions of the tiny percentage of Liverpool fans was appalling and beyond comprehension but no better or worse than the actions of many supporters from many clubs around that time and looked back by many unbelievably with a sense of affection. The actions of almost every set of fans in the 70s and 80s could have led to multiple deaths including our own. The fact that 39 people died as a result of a combination of a tiny percentage of Liverpool fans and an unfit stadium doesn't make Liverpool fans any worse than similar actions by other fans that haven't led to deaths because of fortune and circumstance.
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Completely agree.

There is a very obvious reason why Liverpool were involved in incidents in the European Cup Final and an FA Cup semi final within a few years and, for example, we weren't.

However, going back to the Telegraph article, I think there is some truth in the claims by the Italian author - "From 1985 to 1989, the English were only angry about being banned from Europe, Heysel and Hillsborough had three important similarities: the disorganisation of the authorities, the behaviour of the police, and the fact that innocent people died. If the English had understood Heysel, Hillsborough today would only be the name of a stadium, not of a disaster."

The response to Heysel in this country showed a complete lack of understanding all around. The Government started pissing around with membership schemes and identity cards. The FA started inventing daft new trophies to replace the European tournaments. The general public wringed their hands because football fans were seen as an underclass who deserved what they got if they went to football matches. English football fans got annoyed by being banned from Europe and pointed to continental hooliganism. And nobody, until Lord Justice Taylor after Hillsborough, gave a thought to crowd safety, whether that be caused by fire, crushing, incompetent police, or hooliganism.
 
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