This'll be the Torygrapgh barred in Liverpool

[not spavin]

Watched it on TV as a 9 year old, its incredible how its more or less forgotten,

How is it "more or less forgotten", exactly?

What level of coverage do you think it should receive?

I think it is fair to say that they were both injustices, though. In the sense that they were both preventable tragedies. Both the result of a lack of proper safety measures.

Absolutely.

The guilty were prosecuted in the first, and protected by the government in the second. This victims of Hillsborough were painted as the culprits by senior politicians and judiciary. The victims of Heysel were commemorated.

What do you want from Liverpool FC, exactly? For them to say that Heysel and Hillsborough cancel each other out? To subtract 39 from 96?

 

[lord of light]

It was a horrendous night and one I don't think Liverpool fans have ever taken proper responsibility for, fair play to Lawrenson as he seems to be the only one ever to get interviewed and speak up about it. Btw what was that dick Platini playing at, sums the bloke up to me - wanker.

but it wasnt the liverpool fans - it was clearly the police they failed to stop them charging at the juve fans! police again! they should be charged!!!!! not the fans

 

[PeruzziWatch]

How is it "more or less forgotten", exactly?

What level of coverage do you think it should receive?

I think there's a lot of attention given to the lack of justice for the Hillsborough victims, and rightly so. But the bottom line is that the tragedy is, first and foremost, that people died at football matches. If the coverage is about honouring the dead then a regular acknowledgement of the Heysel tragedy is of equal importance, surely.

 

[Deleted member 26]

Candle vigil at anfield today........has it taken 30 yrs to remember what happened and who caused it?
It's very strange how quiet they are on this matter compared to hillsbrough.

lets not compare, but the cock sucking of Liverpool fans and the club as "special" piss me off. The media and scousers conveniently forget Heysel and that it set English football back 15 years.

I think there's a lot of attention given to the lack of justice for the Hillsborough victims, and rightly so. But the bottom line is that the tragedy is, first and foremost, that people died at football matches. If the coverage is about honouring the dead then a regular acknowledgement of the Heysel tragedy is of equal importance, surely.

Exactly !

 

[Aerial Threat]

I think there's a lot of attention given to the lack of justice for the Hillsborough victims, and rightly so. But the bottom line is that the tragedy is, first and foremost, that people died at football matches. If the coverage is about honouring the dead then a regular acknowledgement of the Heysel tragedy is of equal importance, surely.

Respectfully put. Wholly agree with everything you've said here.

 

[flusheding]

I always find it a bit crazy in these situations, where humans in a panicked crowd seem to lose all sense. Looking at the video posted above

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if you go to 1 minute 7 seconds you can see there is a big gap of space between the huge packed crowd against the wall and where any Liverpool fans would be, yet only a small number are running down towards the pitch and free where as most are pushing harder into people who themselves are being squished against a wall.

It's the same sort of thing with the Bradford City fire, when you watch that video and wonder why people are not running away from the fire onto the pitch and instead run into the belly of the stand down corridors they don't know where they lead to.

People go along with the whole "health and safety gone mad" cliche but thank fuck the authorities have realised that you do need big fuck off signs glowing signs saying exit.

 

[danbob]

I was In Paris with the school at the time. I was 12 and went into the tv room to watch the match with some mates.

Was informed by thr French there that we were English scum and not welcome and to get out. I remember it turning a little Nasty. Ever since I've not liked the French or Liverpool.

I went on an exchange holiday to Germany the week after. I was 15 and went to play football with the son of the family we were stopping with and all the other Germans were laughing at me for being English, no spitting or being called scum, just derision.

As Liverpool are so fond of big gestures, perhaps they could add another black torch to their club badge in memory or those that died as a direct result of their supporters.

The reason the country found it so easy to believe the story in the Sun, and the lies of the police about Hillsborough, are a direct result of what we had witnessed at Heysel, and as the article rightly points out, Liverpool have never truly repented or accepted their responsibility.

 

[Zak's Dad]

It's less than definitive tbf.

No one is saying "they definitely did jail time" or "they definitely didn't".

The perpetrators were flown to face trial by the RAF. I find it unlikely that they were suddenly let off the hook when they came back - the tory government of the time had no reason to show sympathy to Scouse football hooligans.

Yep, in the days before the Internet it's sometimes bloody difficult to get anything definitive or more than 1 source.

The second bit I actually DO remember, after the trial, during the appeal process, they were released from custody and their passports were not taken from them. Also there was no stipulation that they had to stay in Belgium until after the appeal was heard - so they simply left Belgium.

 

[not spavin]

I think there's a lot of attention given to the lack of justice for the Hillsborough victims, and rightly so. But the bottom line is that the tragedy is, first and foremost, that people died at football matches. If the coverage is about honouring the dead then a regular acknowledgement of the Heysel tragedy is of equal importance, surely.

The coverage isn't about honouring the dead - that's the point.

The Hillsborough coverage is about justice. It's not 20+ years of national mourning, it's about drawing attention to a smear and cover-up that went to the highest level of public office. It's one of the biggest scandals of the modern age and, if you take your blinkers off for a second, you'll see that it's an affront to all football fans - all working class people even. If Sunderland fans were crushed to death that day, the same people would've painted the dead as thieves and violent drunks.

The Heysel dead and their families received swift justice. That doesn't detract from either their personal grief or from the tragedy, but it does lessen Heysel's relevance as a news story.

Yep, in the days before the Internet it's sometimes bloody difficult to get anything definitive or more than 1 source.

The second bit I actually DO remember, after the trial, during the appeal process, they were released from custody and their passports were not taken from them. Also there was no stipulation that they had to stay in Belgium until after the appeal was heard - so they simply left Belgium.

It's entirely possible that that lack of information is down to the fact that the authorities fucked things up and have covered their tracks.

If the guilty served no prison time, it doesn't necessarily mean that people didn't think they deserved to get away with it.

I went on an exchange holiday to Germany the week after. I was 15 and went to play football with the son of the family we were stopping with and all the other Germans were laughing at me for being English, no spitting or being called scum, just derision.

As Liverpool are so fond of big gestures, perhaps they could add another black torch to their club badge in memory or those that died as a direct result of their supporters.

The reason the country found it so easy to believe the story in the Sun, and the lies of the police about Hillsborough, are a direct result of what we had witnessed at Heysel, and as the article rightly points out, Liverpool have never truly repented or accepted their responsibility.

What?

They people responsible were convicted. The people were responsible were not acting on orders of LFC.

Liverpool have a memorial to the Heysel dead build into the walls of their stadium. Juventus do not. Liverpool at no stage defended the actions of Heysel. They have nothing to repent about.

 

[PeruzziWatch]

The coverage isn't about honouring the dead - that's the point.

The Hillsborough coverage is about justice. It's not 20+ years of national mourning, it's about drawing attention to a smear and cover-up that went to the highest level of public office. It's one of the biggest scandals of the modern age and, if you take your blinkers off for a second, you'll see that it's an affront to all football fans - all working class people even. If Sunderland fans were crushed to death that day, the same people would've painted the dead as thieves and violent drunks.

The Heysel dead and their families received swift justice. That doesn't detract from either their personal grief or from the tragedy, but it does lessen Heysel's relevance as a news story.



It's entirely possible that that lack of information is down to the fact that the authorities fucked things up and have covered their tracks.

If the guilty served no prison time, it doesn't necessarily mean that people didn't think they deserved to get away with it.



What?

They people responsible were convicted. The people were responsible were not acting on orders of LFC.

Liverpool have a memorial to the Heysel dead build into the walls of their stadium. Juventus do not. Liverpool at no stage defended the actions of Heysel. They have nothing to repent about.

I understand completely that it was scandalous. And I understand the smear tactics that were used. That in itself is an injustice. All I am saying is that they are both, along with the Bradford fire, terrible injustices. Nothing can justify people dying at a football match. They were all preventable occurrences, and that's what is tragic.

 

[safc78]

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Why does this tragedy largely get ignored I remember the night very well

Because disasters involving Liverpool didn't exist before 1989

 

[JumpingAnaconda]

I knew some utter twat wouldn't be able to help themselves. You and Phil Neal cut from the same cloth. Actually getting into Watford in 1985 for the cup tie was the second most scared i have ever been at a match thanks to Sunderland supporters going through cramped turnstiles and having little respect for each other.

I gave my opinion for free, which makes me cut from an entirely different cloth to Phil Neal. The "utter twat" abuse is not really warranted. By "not being able to help [myself]" I assume you mean not sitting back and accepting the hypocrisy of thousands of Liverpool supporters who were happy to completely ignore what their fans did at Heysel, yet for years afterward give massive attention to the Hillsborough disaster. I did not see Liverpool supporters seeking redress after the Heysel disaster. In fact, as far as I am aware they did the sum total of nothing. I do not think it was even until after Hillsborough that they made any gesture whatsoever.

I am not defending the turnstiles at Watford. They were an utter disgrace, like the things used to pen cattle into a slaughterhouse. But the fact is that nobody died in crushes at Watford. Liverpool were involved in matches with over 130 deaths from crushes in the space of four years and their supporters only want to make a huge amount of fuss about the one where police struggled to handle them storming into a packed stadium, and ignore the one where they chased opposition supporters and neutrals to their death. You have to have fans of a certain mentality to be able to utterly blank out one thing while complaining about the other.

 

[danbob]

The coverage isn't about honouring the dead - that's the point.

The Hillsborough coverage is about justice. It's not 20+ years of national mourning, it's about drawing attention to a smear and cover-up that went to the highest level of public office. It's one of the biggest scandals of the modern age and, if you take your blinkers off for a second, you'll see that it's an affront to all football fans - all working class people even. If Sunderland fans were crushed to death that day, the same people would've painted the dead as thieves and violent drunks.

The Heysel dead and their families received swift justice. That doesn't detract from either their personal grief or from the tragedy, but it does lessen Heysel's relevance as a news story.





It's entirely possible that that lack of information is down to the fact that the authorities fucked things up and have covered their tracks.

If the guilty served no prison time, it doesn't necessarily mean that people didn't think they deserved to get away with it.



What?

They people responsible were convicted. The people were responsible were not acting on orders of LFC.

Liverpool have a memorial to the Heysel dead build into the walls of their stadium. Juventus do not. Liverpool at no stage defended the actions of Heysel. They have nothing to repent about.

Check the number of convictions, from what I witnessed on TV, not all that were involved and were responsible were convicted, just the few they nabbed. There was massive disorder perpetrated by the fans of Liverpool, and regardless of a plaque at the ground, the silence is deafening from Liverpool FC with regards to the subject.

I totally understand Liverpool's outrage at the lies told about their actions at Hillsbrough, but similar ingredients for both disasters were in play, outdated dilapidated stadiums, fans attending without tickets, immoveable barriers (wall at Heysel, fence at Hillsbrough), and terrible response from the emergency services.

 

[JumpingAnaconda]

...As Liverpool are so fond of big gestures, perhaps they could add another black torch to their club badge in memory or those that died as a direct result of their supporters.

The reason the country found it so easy to believe the story in the Sun, and the lies of the police about Hillsborough, are a direct result of what we had witnessed at Heysel, and as the article rightly points out, Liverpool have never truly repented or accepted their responsibility.

Liverpool have made more fuss over a single player leaving them last week than they have ever done of the people their fans chased to their death in 1985.

 

[Dogbark]

Suggested in some places, refuted in others.

The perpetrators were flown to face trial by the RAF. I find it unlikely that they were suddenly let off the hook when they came back - the tory government of the time had no reason to show sympathy to Scouse football hooligans.

I found an old article

You must be logged on to see external links

that confirms they were all free still at that point.
I came across another article earlier that reported the sentences being increased to 4 and 5 years (meaning some of them would have been jailed for 20 months) yet this isn't reported on your link. Which makes me think the person who wrote it going by the original sentencing report.

 

[Nee Onions Mate]

The causes of the Heysel "disaster" were:
Bad condition of the stadium
Bad policing
Nasty Juve supporters
Bad ticketing
Bad organisation
Bad Belgiums

Liverpool fans just couldn't avoid it..My heart goes out to them

 

[JumpingAnaconda]

Check the number of convictions, from what I witnessed on TV, not all that were involved and were responsible were convicted, just the few they nabbed. There was massive disorder perpetrated by the fans of Liverpool, and regardless of a plaque at the ground, the silence is deafening from Liverpool FC with regards to the subject.

I totally understand Liverpool's outrage at the lies told about their actions at Hillsbrough, but similar ingredients for both disasters were in play, outdated dilapidated stadiums, fans attending without tickets, immoveable barriers (wall at Heysel, fence at Hillsbrough), and terrible response from the emergency services.

For me the fact that masses of Liverpool fans continue to show up to games without tickets with the intention of getting in to the ground shows how little they are ready to take responsibility for themselves. It is easy to forget because there were no fatalities, but even as late as the 2007 Champions League final thousands of Liverpool supporters turned up at the stadium without tickets, and many got in. The Greek police were criticised with how they handled the situation, and for the unpleasantness outside the stadium including the use of tear gas, but they dealt with it a lot better than the police did at Hillsborough. If there had been a crush and fatalities, who would the supporters have been blaming? The police, of course. Not for one second would they point the finger at the thousands of fans who should have been nowhere near there. Even though over 25 years have passed since the Hillsborough disaster nobody at Liverpool seems to want to admit that they have a problem with fans turning up at matches without tickets trying to force their way into matches.

 

[Morse]

I think it's fair to say that every person who ever supported Liverpool will say they were deeply affected by Hillsborough.
I felt partly responsible when Sunderland supporters, in the 70's, would sing 'he's a wog a wog' at visiting black players.
I suppose it's down to the individual, and their conscience how much responsibility they take.

I shouldn't, but

To the tune of Que sera, sera...

He's a wog, a wog
It's plain to see, to see
He's blacker than you or me
He's a wog, a wog.

Is that the one? It was sung quite often back in the day. Not nice at all, but different times then.

 

[Reiver]

I shouldn't, but

To the tune of Que sera, sera...

He's a wog, a wog
It's plain to see, to see
He's blacker than you or me
He's a wog, a wog.

Is that the one? It was sung quite often back in the day. Not nice at all, but different times then.

It's mad isn't it, after I'd posted that I sang it through in my head then couldn't get rid of it.

When our lass asked what I was sniggering about I made the mistake of telling her

 

[Morse]

You're speaking for yourself, not me.

It was 'de rigueur' to call disabled people 'spackas' but I didn't do that either.

Really? I remember cerebral palsy sufferers being referred to as 'spastics', which was and is f***ing horrendous, but calling them spackas was never acceptable.
Even back then you'd likely get a clip if you used that word to refer to a disabled person. It was commonly used, and still is, to take the piss when someone messes up in some way. It's almost used as the Americans use it nowadays, as a jibe when someone does something clumsy. It's still a very dodgy word, though.
The M-word was once widely used to describe Down's Syndrome sufferers, but it has quite rightly become extremely offensive over time. It's censored on here IIRC.

It's mad isn't it, after I'd posted that I sang it through in my head then couldn't get rid of it.

When our lass asked what I was sniggering about I made the mistake of telling her

I sang it to the Missus (she's black!), she just tried not to laugh and shook her head.

She's not really black...

It's mad isn't it, after I'd posted that I sang it through in my head then couldn't get rid of it.

When our lass asked what I was sniggering about I made the mistake of telling her

Reported.