Work from home tax

[DaveH]

I'm firmly on the left. People are going to lose their jobs through this shift and that is shit. I've got a lot of sympathy for those who can see their jobs going down the swanny, it's a brutal time. The answer however isn't forcing people back into the office just to prop up the economy. The world has changed, full time in the office is dead for most people, part time in is the future and we need to accept that rather than fight it.

The government has a role to help those people find new work through investing in new industries and creating jobs. There's a great opportunity in all of this mess for a greener, more localised economy. It's going to be a pretty rough ride for a lot of sectors in getting there though, that's the unfortunate reality. You'd like to think we as a country would look after these people until they can find new employment.

I think it is a case of change usually being gradual but this time it is fast. We were already having 'blended' meetings at work where we had someone at a remote site regularly and one person mostly working from home (she was heavily pregnant and struggling with a full day in, just before her full leave). It was working pretty well.

On the other side of things, we had suppliers come for either sales calls or just account catch ups, where they would have 3 hours drive, talk to us for just under an hour and 3 hours back. 1 hour to catch up on mails and that was their working day.

We had just signed up to Office365 and were preparing to hit the button to turn on Teams by mid-March. That better environment would have lead to people being able to work from home and attend meetings. My father-in-laws company had adapted too, and he was working 2 days from home.

With such gradual change, it doesn't get noticed. Perhaps the sandwich shop is not quiet so busy on a lunch time so when someone leaves they are not replaced. Perhaps the same company decides after a while to move from one at each end of a long street to a single store in the middle. It is all gradual and not noticed. This change could be a big bang change. I know my work is considering making every post have the option of 2 days at home, unless the job requires you to be onsite. If everyone does that, it is a 40% reduction in traffic and sales to local businesses.

But, like you said, it leads to other businesses. I said before about local cafes and pubs becoming meeting spots. If two people live near each other, why go to the office for a meeting? Also, the home office/garden building business is booming. IT equipment sales are up, as are office furniture. People are looking at extensions. The money will get spent, just spread out. Some businesses around workplaces will fall by the wayside, just a quick death rather than a drawn out one. It is what happens. Same as you don't see many blacksmiths and cobblers these days.

 

[42]

The companies are going to have a right carry on bringing most of those wfh back down to reality. Whilst protecting peoples health they've inadvertently gave people a feeling theyve been promoted to management positions who can dictate how the company runs.


Id abandon any of those ideals then as through your obstinacy youve highlighted why socialism is a knackered concept. It fails to take account of peoples greed and selfishness. Millions of people should lose their jobs and re train because some work shy script readers who flick a mouse every so often so there screen remains active dont feel like going back into the office

You claim to be on the left, but don't like the idea of employees having more power?
The same happened after the black death which brought down the feudal system.

Anyway, you're completing ignoring what you're being told is happening. It's not the employees who are demanding home working, it's the employers implementing as it saves them money.

Over time things do change. Where someone loses out, there are opportunities created elsewhere. Now there is no longer then need for all & sundry to be based in London, this working shift might actually benefit the North & create a levelling up effect.

 

[GlosMackem]

The tax would go straight into a compensation packet for rich office owners. No way it's distributed to the poor.

Should pay less tax working from home given the cost/saving to the environment.

 

[dangermows]

I suppose it’s like an eco system for every action there’s a knock on effect for animals, one species may thrive, another will suffer the effects.
What the answer is during any transition of the economy and how we work is anyone’s guess, but it’s pretty clear if folk work in retail they’d probably be wise to start looking for other avenues of income

I think a fair few of those in retail are looking snookered regardless. The high street has been dying for a good while tbt. Got the likes of Amazon to thank.

 

[Boz33]

I think a fair few of those in retail are looking snookered regardless. The high street has been dying for a good while tbt.

Oh yeh they are fucked like, but still remains the question of what to do with them, there must be 100s of 1000s with little to no skills that have to find employment, same goes for a lot of the side industries that rely on them to remain open cleaners and the like, all low skilled low paid work.
It may seem like a bright new world for those working from home but there’s a shit load of people it will seem like the end of days at the same time

 

[dangermows]

Oh yeh they are fucked like, but still remains the question of what to do with them, there must be 100s of 1000s with little to no skills that have to find employment, same goes for a lot of the side industries that rely on them to remain open cleaners and the like, all low skilled low paid work.
It may seem like a bright new world for those working from home but there’s a shit load of people it will seem like the end of days at the same time

People keep talking about wfh being this great thing where you can kick back. Many, including myself, disagree. Stats and productivity dictate, and that can be assessed whether an individual is at a desk at home or at an office. As others have said, you often end up working longer (answer queries where you'd have gone home, having bait at your desk etc) can't sep home m and work life and the social side (pint at lunch, after work) is bladdered. I've always appreciated the option to do so when I wanted to or needed to but being made to 100% is canny shite.

On the knock on effects. What if everyone went back into the office, but having seen what they can save through this period, fuck off the likes of Pret and do as manual workers do (take their own bait in)?

 

[Sinbad Skullhead]

People keep talking about wfh being this great thing where you can kick back. Many, including myself, disagree. Stats and productivity dictate, and that can be assessed whether an individual is at a desk at home or at an office. As others have said, you often end up working longer (answer queries where you'd have gone home, having bait at your desk etc) can't sep home m and work life and the social side (pint at lunch, after work) is bladdered. I've always appreciated the option to do so when I wanted to or needed to but being made to 100% is canny shite.

On the knock on effects. What if everyone went back into the office, but having seen what they can save through this period, fuck off the likes of Pret and do as manual workers do (take their own bait in)?

Someone better get down to the new council building and tell them the offices they're building around the area arent needed.

 

[dangermows]

Someone better get down to the new council building and tell them the offices they're building around the area arent needed.

Why's that?

No one has said no one will ever be back in the office that I can see. Nor has anyone said government workers won't, in some capacity, go back in. Strangely though, you think for profit organisations, who have already had people wfh long before this, are suddenly going to decide (remember the government has no say) to up their costs and have everyone back in..... You best update our top brass, who have let me and others wfh for yonks, have briefed certain teams to say they'll be 100% wfh going forward and that the other teams set up will be reviewed in April.
Also, can you give an update on HMRC, who years ago had people wfh as there were about seven desks for every ten people. They've continued recruited in big numbers but not increased the size of premises. How's that one going yo work out when they apparently will decide everyone needs to be in the office full time?

You're most definitely a manual worker who wrongly thinks wfh is a new thing and is a chance to skive. It's no wonder you're so angry about it.

You claim to be on the left, but don't like the idea of employees having more power?
The same happened after the black death which brought down the feudal system.

Anyway, you're completing ignoring what you're being told is happening. It's not the employees who are demanding home working, it's the employers implementing as it saves them money.

Over time things do change. Where someone loses out, there are opportunities created elsewhere. Now there is no longer then need for all & sundry to be based in London, this working shift might actually benefit the North & create a levelling up effect.

It's funny that he thinks it's the employees making the call

This blows a few myths anarl

Employees shouldn’t pay to work at home | Letter

Letter: Chris Drabble on a suggestion that workers who continue to stay away from the office should pay more tax

www.google.com

Over time things do change. Where someone loses out, there are opportunities created elsewhere. Now there is no longer then need for all & sundry to be based in London, this working shift might actually benefit the North & create a levelling up effect.

Good shout. All our top brass have always been in London. Didn't really mind. Remote management is alright and was a reason to have the odd trip. But the last two big posts have gone to our Manchester office.

 

[42]

Someone better get down to the new council building and tell them the offices they're building around the area arent needed.

You do reliase the new building is half the size of the offices it's replacing as the expectation is more working from home.

 

[Chalks]

Lower overheads, same levels of productivity, happier employees. What am I missing?

It’s a recipe for outsourcing also

 

[James]

It’s a recipe for outsourcing also

Aye it might happen in some roles that could be done by any old plodder, however anything that involves things like teamwork, critical thinking and client management won't be at risk.

Think it's interesting what it'll do for the UK jobs market though. Roles going from location specific to being open to the entire country. Applications for jobs likely to go through the roof as people know it involves no relocation.

 

[Chalks]

Aye it might happen in some roles that could be done by any old plodder, however anything that involves things like teamwork, critical thinking and client management won't be at risk.

Think it's interesting what it'll do for the UK jobs market though. Roles going from location specific to being open to the entire country. Applications for jobs likely to go through the roof as people know it involves no relocation.

IT , finance, legal, marketing , can all be done in Belarus.

edit. Tell you what though , we are advertising for a solution architect, can we hell get anyone decent, loads of cvs but all engineers or people oit of work.
Think people are scared to jump at the minute

 

[Deleted member 47406]

Or, what if you just taxed the rich folk who dodge it?

The Tories always want to find ways to squeeze from the bottom.

 

[Sir Lancelot]

I think a fair few of those in retail are looking snookered regardless. The high street has been dying for a good while tbt. Got the likes of Amazon to thank.

The high street may be dead but the retail sector is anything but. Those who jumped onto the internet will continue to do well as more and more people move their shopping habits there. You don’t need a store front to sell stuff. Today I’ve received parcels from Amazon, Littlewoods, a sewing shop and I’ve ordered patches from a Facebook store for memory cushions for my dad. I’ve spent well over £300 without having to get off the settee other than to answer the door to the delivery men.

 

[I'm Spartacus]

People keep talking about wfh being this great thing where you can kick back. Many, including myself, disagree. Stats and productivity dictate, and that can be assessed whether an individual is at a desk at home or at an office. As others have said, you often end up working longer (answer queries where you'd have gone home, having bait at your desk etc) can't sep home m and work life and the social side (pint at lunch, after work) is bladdered. I've always appreciated the option to do so when I wanted to or needed to but being made to 100% is canny shite.

On the knock on effects. What if everyone went back into the office, but having seen what they can save through this period, fuck off the likes of Pret and do as manual workers do (take their own bait in)?

When I was plumbing for the council we never took scran in, we used to pop in whatever scranery was closest. I used to love grafting near a maws pies. Ah man maws pies, I still can’t believe they’re gone for good

 

[DaveH]

IT , finance, legal, marketing , can all be done in Belarus.

edit. Tell you what though , we are advertising for a solution architect, can we hell get anyone decent, loads of cvs but all engineers or people oit of work.
Think people are scared to jump at the minute

I did hear that not a lot of people are moving at the moment. Places are getting lots of applications but not many quality ones.

Though I did make casual contact with one place just to ask a few questions about a role they had advertised. I sent it from my work account, so my sig would show I was doing a similar job at a similar place. The response I got was fairly cold, as if they had loads of good applications. If it were me recruiting I’d have been inviting someone clearly qualified for the role for a casual online chat, rather than very short answers. Unless, they had an internal in mind and the advert was just part of the process they have to do.

 

[dangermows]

The high street may be dead but the retail sector is anything but. Those who jumped onto the internet will continue to do well as more and more people move their shopping habits there. You don’t need a store front to sell stuff. Today I’ve received parcels from Amazon, Littlewoods, a sewing shop and I’ve ordered patches from a Facebook store for memory cushions for my dad. I’ve spent well over £300 without having to get off the settee other than to answer the door to the delivery men.

Agreed. So those WFH will be buying loads on line. Happy days.

 

[Chalks]

I did hear that not a lot of people are moving at the moment. Places are getting lots of applications but not many quality ones.

Though I did make casual contact with one place just to ask a few questions about a role they had advertised. I sent it from my work account, so my sig would show I was doing a similar job at a similar place. The response I got was fairly cold, as if they had loads of good applications. If it were me recruiting I’d have been inviting someone clearly qualified for the role for a casual online chat, rather than very short answers. Unless, they had an internal in mind and the advert was just part of the process they have to do.

Can’t blame them to be fair, heard of people leaving a role for a new one then the role being pulled!

 

[yamar1]

Once the pandemic is over rules will be put in place to get people back to the office. A blind man on a galloping horse can see it coming.

 

[dangermows]

When I was plumbing for the council we never took scran in, we used to pop in whatever scranery was closest. I used to love grafting near a maws pies. Ah man maws pies, I still can’t believe they’re gone for good

Yup. I guess you were out and about. It seems those who work on site or in a factory all day take bait in. That's what's been said on here as well, with people scoffing at those spending loads on bait and coffees, saying it was wasting money. Suddenly its changed now though and those people MUST get to Pret, the selfish bastards!

Once the pandemic is over rules will be put in place to get people back to the office. A blind man on a galloping horse can see it coming.

What rules marra? Just interested as our place is down sizing and already telling people they'll be working from home more, if not permanently.