Wigan paying players late



Big Bad Don said:
You can take it that way but plenty of these clubs that have hit the wall are all down to one person who didn't have such a moral conscious, not sticking up for the fella as he screwed the club with his decisions and appointments then just deciding to pull the plug on his investments but you still have to think how bad it got have gotten if he hadn't written it off when technically he didn't have to.
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He wasn’t a chancer without two dimes to rub together, he was a seriously rich billionaire. The reputational damage for someone in his position in finance would be an unwanted stigma. However I do truly believe he understood this clubs purpose as a community asset and how he had a responsibility to protect it. I also believe he saw it as a gift to the club to be able to start again, I also believe he thought the chancer cockneys were the right people. I also believe he made inept, badly informed decisions from the moment he walked though the door. Which for me means he had more money than sense and saw club as nothing more than a hobby.
He did the only decent thing and doesn’t deserve credit having dumped us in the third division penny less.
 
dannyt said:
We’re in the middle of upgrading training facilities and the ground, as well as having just finished a training camp in Spain. Some things aren’t quite adding up when it comes to being in ‘financial difficulty’ other than it being a bit amateurish to not pay on time.

As for the spraying money around, different owners, budgets submitted, everything above board for last season.
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I've been here (rtg) since early 90's and since a questionable ban have kept a very quiet counsel. You have my sympathies, but you are either incredibly naive, deliberately obfuscation the truth via the official 'truth', or more likely in complete denial due to the crap you lot went through last time. Your new owners took a massive gamble on promotion, the source of their investment is 'murky' and along with supposed investment in ground and training ground as well as outsourced contracts such as catering etc has been heavily leveraged and underwritten. GOM will explain better, but, basically, in next year's accounts, if you last that long, there will be 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th generation companies/entities becoming incorporated and underwriting these liabilities, plus interest and lein. Your business model was front loaded (season cards/reasonably expected commercial revenue etc) plus a massive gamble on promotion. Unfortunately I would be amazed if your season tickets will increase above 15%, meaning an anticipated shortfall with contract changes. As projected/hoped for revenue increases (footfall, tv revenue etc) are paid in arrears, your owners will again leverage operating costs, increasing underlying debt AND increasing debt servicing costs. Without (not happening) promotion, (unlikely) playoffs or Cup run or (highly unlikely) player sales I estimate a shortfall of £15m+ end of this season. Expect news of "new external" investment and "board restructuring". You, unfortunately, are fckd.
 
ShirleyKnott said:
I've been here (rtg) since early 90's and since a questionable ban have kept a very quiet counsel. You have my sympathies, but you are either incredibly naive, deliberately obfuscation the truth via the official 'truth', or more likely in complete denial due to the crap you lot went through last time. Your new owners took a massive gamble on promotion, the source of their investment is 'murky' and along with supposed investment in ground and training ground as well as outsourced contracts such as catering etc has been heavily leveraged and underwritten. GOM will explain better, but, basically, in next year's accounts, if you last that long, there will be 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th generation companies/entities becoming incorporated and underwriting these liabilities, plus interest and lein. Your business model was front loaded (season cards/reasonably expected commercial revenue etc) plus a massive gamble on promotion. Unfortunately I would be amazed if your season tickets will increase above 15%, meaning an anticipated shortfall with contract changes. As projected/hoped for revenue increases (footfall, tv revenue etc) are paid in arrears, your owners will again leverage operating costs, increasing underlying debt AND increasing debt servicing costs. Without (not happening) promotion, (unlikely) playoffs or Cup run or (highly unlikely) player sales I estimate a shortfall of £15m+ end of this season. Expect news of "new external" investment and "board restructuring". You, unfortunately, are fckd.
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Ouch.
 
DaveH said:
Something needs to be reset to get it back to what you say.

Football is different to many businesses, in that if you can't compete with a rival, you can lose your assets to that rival. So you get a rich club at the top which is not being run in a sustainable way and propped up by masses of income from a rich owner. The next club down the ladder has to try to match that, but with lower funds, otherwise their best players might walk out. So they do what they can and build up debt. But then the next club down from them now have to compete with that just above them, and so on and so on.

Look at us with Ndong and Dijilobodji. In the Championship with £22m of 'talent' and they refused to play. If we could have sold them sooner and used that cash, we might not have gone down again. It hurt us when on a low and all clubs fear that happening to them. If you are in the building trade and you own a massive crane today, you still own it tomorrow. If you are in football and own a delicate personality they can be a world beater today and just be a worthless liability on your books tomorrow.

I've no problem with an owner putting in a bit of money as one off investment to try and grow, but when it is a sustained insanely massive amount then the whole competitiveness falls apart. You also have the other side where in order to make money back, TV subscriptions become the most expensive TV package going, by a long way. Match day tickets are many times what they were in 1990, nowhere near inflation for the same time. Team shirts, pints, pies etc, all end up massively overpriced and supporters struggle to watch their team without putting a significant amount of their income towards it. And to what end? So an untested 18 year old can be worth over £10m, earning many millions per year.

It is all broken and until it is fixed, teams like Derby and potentially Wigan now, are going to have problems.
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Simple fact is, the Premier League now is "uncompetitive" in terms of a club like ourselves (7th place season - which should've been better), Forest (Frank Clark took them up and finished 3rd) and of course the Scum (under Keegan). If you get promoted from the Championship then you are chasing nothing more than staying up in the Premier League. The clubs that rack up crazy debts whilst up there (us being a great example) put themselves in a perilous position once they are the team to fall through the trap door one year.

In recent years though, the clubs being promoted from the Championship are generally the ones who haven't saddled themselves with huge debts from overpaid players on ridiculous contracts that they never prove to be worth. These clubs may well end up being "Yo-Yo" clubs but better off being that than a club who falls to pieces after relegation and takes years and years to recover.

Sport always has had bigger fish. Its just the way it works. You have to learn to adapt within the environment to compete, survive and succeed at your own targets.
 
ShirleyKnott said:
I've been here (rtg) since early 90's and since a questionable ban have kept a very quiet counsel. You have my sympathies, but you are either incredibly naive, deliberately obfuscation the truth via the official 'truth', or more likely in complete denial due to the crap you lot went through last time. Your new owners took a massive gamble on promotion, the source of their investment is 'murky' and along with supposed investment in ground and training ground as well as outsourced contracts such as catering etc has been heavily leveraged and underwritten. GOM will explain better, but, basically, in next year's accounts, if you last that long, there will be 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th generation companies/entities becoming incorporated and underwriting these liabilities, plus interest and lein. Your business model was front loaded (season cards/reasonably expected commercial revenue etc) plus a massive gamble on promotion. Unfortunately I would be amazed if your season tickets will increase above 15%, meaning an anticipated shortfall with contract changes. As projected/hoped for revenue increases (footfall, tv revenue etc) are paid in arrears, your owners will again leverage operating costs, increasing underlying debt AND increasing debt servicing costs. Without (not happening) promotion, (unlikely) playoffs or Cup run or (highly unlikely) player sales I estimate a shortfall of £15m+ end of this season. Expect news of "new external" investment and "board restructuring". You, unfortunately, are fckd.
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I’m not in denial, I just don’t know the facts but as I said earlier, I’m not happy this has occurred at all. I know we absolutely did not plan to go up last season as it was aimed for in the second season, so that’s one ‘bonus’ by the looks of it. I look forward to comparing your analysis with interest.
 
ShirleyKnott said:
I've been here (rtg) since early 90's and since a questionable ban have kept a very quiet counsel. You have my sympathies, but you are either incredibly naive, deliberately obfuscation the truth via the official 'truth', or more likely in complete denial due to the crap you lot went through last time. Your new owners took a massive gamble on promotion, the source of their investment is 'murky' and along with supposed investment in ground and training ground as well as outsourced contracts such as catering etc has been heavily leveraged and underwritten. GOM will explain better, but, basically, in next year's accounts, if you last that long, there will be 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th generation companies/entities becoming incorporated and underwriting these liabilities, plus interest and lein. Your business model was front loaded (season cards/reasonably expected commercial revenue etc) plus a massive gamble on promotion. Unfortunately I would be amazed if your season tickets will increase above 15%, meaning an anticipated shortfall with contract changes. As projected/hoped for revenue increases (footfall, tv revenue etc) are paid in arrears, your owners will again leverage operating costs, increasing underlying debt AND increasing debt servicing costs. Without (not happening) promotion, (unlikely) playoffs or Cup run or (highly unlikely) player sales I estimate a shortfall of £15m+ end of this season. Expect news of "new external" investment and "board restructuring". You, unfortunately, are fckd.
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That's rubbish. Everything is great and their massive wage bill is nothing to worry about at all.
 
This is the issue with administration being as “easy” on clubs as it is currently. While you don’t want to see clubs going under and disappearing, you sometimes get the impression it’s only moral decency standing between a club who have overspent and a clean slate.

When there is no real consequence it’s too much of a temptation for the same clubs to do the same thing again.

Wigan offering Wyke 10k a week, having just almost gone bust, is what is wrong with the system as it stands.
 
Nelson! said:
This is the issue with administration being as “easy” on clubs as it is currently. While you don’t want to see clubs going under and disappearing, you sometimes get the impression it’s only moral decency standing between a club who have overspent and a clean slate.

When there is no real consequence it’s too much of a temptation for the same clubs to do the same thing again.

Wigan offering Wyke 10k a week, having just almost gone bust, is what is wrong with the system as it stands.
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The entire point of the administration process (for all companies) is to try to preserve the business (and related jobs) as a going concern wherever possible, either by a creditors' voluntary arrangement (CVA), under which the existing owners pay off a proportion of the amounts owed over an agreed period in return for the rest being written off, or by a sale of assets into a newco with no pre-existing debts. It's supposed to leave a clean slate; the PL/EFL make it more draconian by insisting the, to the extent they remain unpaid by the proceeds of administration, the new owners must ensure that football creditors are repaid in full, and other unsecured creditors receive 35%.
dannyt said:
Transfermarkt thinks Will Keane is on about £1250 a week and Jason Kerr on £16k 🤦🏻‍♂️
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Transfermarkt is possibly the most unreliable site out there in claimed transfer values and wages. If they don't know (as in undisclosed fees), they simply make it up.
 
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Nelson! said:
This is the issue with administration being as “easy” on clubs as it is currently. While you don’t want to see clubs going under and disappearing, you sometimes get the impression it’s only moral decency standing between a club who have overspent and a clean slate.

When there is no real consequence it’s too much of a temptation for the same clubs to do the same thing again.

Wigan offering Wyke 10k a week, having just almost gone bust, is what is wrong with the system as it stands.
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How do you punish what is in effect a new company? Someone alluded to it further up in the thread. There’s consequences post administration, to get out of it you pay all football creditors in full and the rest at least 25% immediately or 35% over 3 years. Blame the clubs rather the the EFL though. The EFL hide behind the ‘wishes’ of clubs who vote through the rules. It’s self-perpetuating and keeps the merry go round of people like Bassini having a change to own clubs.
 
ShirleyKnott said:
I've been here (rtg) since early 90's and since a questionable ban have kept a very quiet counsel. You have my sympathies, but you are either incredibly naive, deliberately obfuscation the truth via the official 'truth', or more likely in complete denial due to the crap you lot went through last time. Your new owners took a massive gamble on promotion, the source of their investment is 'murky' and along with supposed investment in ground and training ground as well as outsourced contracts such as catering etc has been heavily leveraged and underwritten. GOM will explain better, but, basically, in next year's accounts, if you last that long, there will be 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th generation companies/entities becoming incorporated and underwriting these liabilities, plus interest and lein. Your business model was front loaded (season cards/reasonably expected commercial revenue etc) plus a massive gamble on promotion. Unfortunately I would be amazed if your season tickets will increase above 15%, meaning an anticipated shortfall with contract changes. As projected/hoped for revenue increases (footfall, tv revenue etc) are paid in arrears, your owners will again leverage operating costs, increasing underlying debt AND increasing debt servicing costs. Without (not happening) promotion, (unlikely) playoffs or Cup run or (highly unlikely) player sales I estimate a shortfall of £15m+ end of this season. Expect news of "new external" investment and "board restructuring". You, unfortunately, are fckd.
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Great post , please do paragraphs in future though ,easier for my eyes :lol:
 
jsdftm04 said:
Listened to podcasts with people who were at Bolton and it was always a banking error apparently. They haven't sent the payment etc. So got paid next day.

Then suddenly next time it happened, no money for 9 months :lol:
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bit like Chris Kercher trying to buy Derby claiming he was unable to transfer money owing to it being a bank holiday.

I'm surprised Wigan never claimed the cheque was in the post
 

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