Why the hate campaign against EVs?

humbug said:
that's my point though. like i've said earlier, they were developed with the aim of saving the planet but it appears the vast majority are only getting them because of some other financial incentive. take that away and i'd wager there's be virtually none on the roads.
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Removing air pollution in cities is a MASSIVE win for EVs.
Literally saving countless lives.
humbug said:
i, along with i'd dare say the majority of the population don't have access to the sort of scheme that makes them more attractive as well as all the inherent charging infrastructure problems. even if i did have some sort of incentive i doubt i'd get one. the cost is one reason and not being fit for purpose for me is the other.
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I didn't have access to any scheme. I paid in cash.
I don't even have a cheap EV charging rate, I pay the full 28p per unit or whatever it is.
Still happy.
humbug said:
i did have a look last night at plug in hybrids and the battery range on them is neither use nor ornament. it's almost as if they're just to circumvent taxation laws. having said that, the brother in law and his mrs have one (a honda) and they love it.
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Skoda Superb does about 40 miles on pure electric. Which would cover almost every day to day drive we do.
Only flip to ICE for 2 x per month long drives
Ideal for the vast majority of people from the numbers we've shared on this very thread.

And even for someone doing 100 miles per day, its going to half your fuel use, which is still a great winner. And lets you go EV only in cities for the aforementioned air quality improvement.

The only time it isn't a winner seems to be for people who can't charge at home and that's total fair enough.
bomber said:
Let's be honest folks only buy diesel over petrol for the better MPG/savings.
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I prefer the torque on deisels and they tended to have turbos which you could get remapped and get LURDS of power :)
bomber said:
Both will run forever as long as its financially viable.
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Unless its a Ford Ecoboom engine ;)
 
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PTR said:
Removing air pollution in cities is a MASSIVE win for EVs.
Literally saving countless lives.

I didn't have access to any scheme. I paid in cash.
I don't even have a cheap EV charging rate, I pay the full 28p per unit or whatever it is.
Still happy.

Skoda Superb does about 40 miles on pure electric. Which would cover almost every day to day drive we do.
Only flip to ICE for 2 x per month long drives
Ideal for the vast majority of people from the numbers we've shared on this very thread.

And even for someone doing 100 miles per day, its going to half your fuel use, which is still a great winner. And lets you go EV only in cities for the aforementioned air quality improvement.

The only time it isn't a winner seems to be for people who can't charge at home and that's total fair enough.
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you're one of the very few on here who has paid for it cash without assistance it seems.

the bmw's and others i looked at had between 20-40 miles which is about as much use as hemir. to me anyway.
 
humbug said:
you're one of the very few on here who has paid for it cash without assistance it seems.
the bmw's and others i looked at had between 20-40 miles which is about as much use as hemir. to me anyway.
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Just for context, from gov.uk
"In 2021, 25% of trips were under 1 mile, and 72% under 5 miles."

72% of ALL car journeys are under 10 miles round trip.
 
humbug said:
i did have a look last night at plug in hybrids and the battery range on them is neither use nor ornament. it's almost as if they're just to circumvent taxation laws. having said that, the brother in law and his mrs have one (a honda) and they love it.
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I had a mild hybrid XC40 while my Mach E was in getting recall work done. The 48v battery literally did nothing. No matter what I did to try and deplete it did nothing, it stayed full. It was saying it was regenerating plenty when i was lifting off, but it was completely pointless. The 2.0L turbo charged petrol engine got 30mpg in it. I don't think 48v would be enough power to make a noticeable difference anyway since it was basically a larger starter motor bolted to the side. It was definitely there as a tax dodge to say it is a hybrid.

As you say the range on electric only for hybrids is just too low. 40 miles wouldn't get my wife to and from work, so we would be charging overnight and still using petrol for that journey, worst of both worlds. Our Mach E will do a weeks driving without being plugged it at all.
 
anth said:
I had a mild hybrid XC40 while my Mach E was in getting recall work done. The 48v battery literally did nothing. No matter what I did to try and deplete it did nothing, it stayed full. It was saying it was regenerating plenty when i was lifting off, but it was completely pointless. The 2.0L turbo charged petrol engine got 30mpg in it. I don't think 48v would be enough power to make a noticeable difference anyway since it was basically a larger starter motor bolted to the side. It was definitely there as a tax dodge to say it is a hybrid.
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40Nm of instant torque from what I just read. Not a lot, but seems its only function is to get you moving from very low revs - i.e. to smooth the power delivery of the rev range.
One of those where I guess you can only tell the difference if you were to turn it off and test - and then go back and forth a few times.
anth said:
As you say the range on electric only for hybrids is just too low. 40 miles wouldn't get my wife to and from work, so we would be charging overnight and still using petrol for that journey, worst of both worlds. Our Mach E will do a weeks driving without being plugged it at all.
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Is it a terrible thing to use 75% less fuel each day?
 
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PTR said:
Is it a terrible thing to use 75% less fuel each day?
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No it’s not, but I figured it was the worst of both worlds having to charge and having to go to the petrol station. Made more sense to go full EV especially since hybrids are particularly cheap either.
 
Average yearly car mileage in the UK is 7,400 miles. That works out just over 20 miles per day on average. Yet those statistics posted by Fcomp say the average daily mileage for the UK is 8.3 miles. So which is the true figure, 20 miles or 8.3 miles? 3,500 miles average per year seems a very low figure to me.
 
anth said:
No it’s not, but I figured it was the worst of both worlds having to charge and having to go to the petrol station. Made more sense to go full EV especially since hybrids are particularly cheap either.
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You did make me think something though - do these plug in hybrid EV motors have enough power to actually use on their own. Checked the Superb that I fancy, and its a 120hp motor, which is bloody great really.
But I'm sure not all cars would be so "peppy" on EV only.
 
Tuono said:
Average yearly car mileage in the UK is 7,400 miles. That works out just over 20 miles per day on average. Yet those statistics posted by Fcomp say the average daily mileage for the UK is 8.3 miles. So which is the true figure, 20 miles or 8.3 miles? 3,500 miles average per year seems a very low figure to me.
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Figures will of dropped a fair bit with people working from home and all this hybrid stuff but I would still think 9 or 10k a year would be average.
 
Tuono said:
Average yearly car mileage in the UK is 7,400 miles. That works out just over 20 miles per day on average. Yet those statistics posted by Fcomp say the average daily mileage for the UK is 8.3 miles. So which is the true figure, 20 miles or 8.3 miles? 3,500 miles average per year seems a very low figure to me.
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I've seen a few articles that average annual mileage is actually down to about 4k these days. Its about what we do combined, nevermind each car.

The 20 vs 8.3 miles thing - maybe its MEAN vs MEDIAN averages? Many people will do 20 trips to work each month under 10 miles each trip, and then one 250 mile round trip one weekend a month.
 
PTR said:
I've seen a few articles that average annual mileage is actually down to about 4k these days. Its about what we do combined, nevermind each car.

The 20 vs 8.3 miles thing - maybe its MEAN vs MEDIAN averages? Many people will do 20 trips to work each month under 10 miles each trip, and then one 250 mile round trip one weekend a month.
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It could be mean v median, very misleading not to mention median if it is.
 
PTR said:
You did make me think something though - do these plug in hybrid EV motors have enough power to actually use on their own. Checked the Superb that I fancy, and its a 120hp motor, which is bloody great really.
But I'm sure not all cars would be so "peppy" on EV only.
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There are different types of hybrid. Mild hybrids don’t plug in and aren’t powerful enough to run on electric only. Then there are plug in hybrids that can. We were looking at replacing our XC90 D5 with a T8 XC90 which is a plug in. It has 130bhp electric motor but the older one has a range of 18 miles, the later one is 30 miles. It wasn’t just the range it was in such a heavy car, a 130bhp motor would feel like a 1.0L and it would barely move. So you’d be using the 300bhp petrol engine all the time, which means it’s not that economical.
 
Tuono said:
It could be mean v median, very misleading not to mention median if it is.
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For something like this, median is by far the best average to use. It pushes outliers out of the equation.
anth said:
There are different types of hybrid. Mild hybrids don’t plug in and aren’t powerful enough to run on electric only. Then there are plug in hybrids that can. We were looking at replacing our XC90 D5 with a T8 XC90 which is a plug in. It has 130bhp electric motor but the older one has a range of 18 miles, the later one is 30 miles. It wasn’t just the range it was in such a heavy car, a 130bhp motor would feel like a 1.0L and it would barely move. So you’d be using the 300bhp petrol engine all the time, which means it’s not that economical.
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Yeah, Id be interested to see how much heavier the phev is compared to the ICE only version of these cars.
 
Tuono said:
Average yearly car mileage in the UK is 7,400 miles. That works out just over 20 miles per day on average. Yet those statistics posted by Fcomp say the average daily mileage for the UK is 8.3 miles. So which is the true figure, 20 miles or 8.3 miles? 3,500 miles average per year seems a very low figure to me.
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Average journey is 8.3 miles, but most people make more than 1 journey each day.
Drop the kids off at school, call in the shops, pick the kids up from school. That might be 3 journeys which add up to the daily average mileage.
 
PTR said:
For something like this, median is by far the best average to use. It pushes outliers out of the equation.

Yeah, Id be interested to see how much heavier the phev is compared to the ICE only version of these cars.
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It’s more the XC90 is a heavy car full stop. They are all over 2100kg dry so a 130bhp motor is going to feel like nothing.
 
anth said:
It’s more the XC90 is a heavy car full stop. They are all over 2100kg dry so a 130bhp motor is going to feel like nothing.
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Mind, 130bhp in an EV motor is entirely different to an ICE. You get it all immediately.
Just pulled up my dyno traces from when I had my exeo rempped to 190bhp, and it only reached 130bhp at 2,200 revs. I usually changed gear shortly after that!

The leaf is a rocket off the line, its kinda wierd being in a small, normal, "dull" car then having it launch off the line as it does. We don't even take the Eco mode off.

Just checked, the leaf is 107bhp @ 1500kg kerbweight - 71bhp/t. XC90 phev looks to be about 2200kg - 59bhp/t
Not as terrible as I'd expected.
As I mentioned, ECO mode on the Leaf basically changes the throttle response to 70% across the range (with 100% being available on kick down). That means we drive ours at 50bhp/t !
 
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PTR said:
Mind, 130bhp in an EV motor is entirely different to an ICE. You get it all immediately.
Just pulled up my dyno traces from when I had my exeo rempped to 190bhp, and it only reached 130bhp at 2,200 revs. I usually changed gear shortly after that!

The leaf is a rocket off the line, its kinda wierd being in a small, normal, "dull" car then having it launch off the line as it does. We don't even take the Eco mode off.

Just checked, the leaf is 107bhp @ 1500kg kerbweight - 71bhp/t. XC90 phev looks to be about 2200kg - 59bhp/t
Not as terrible as I'd expected.
As I mentioned, ECO mode on the Leaf basically changes the throttle response to 70% across the range (with 100% being available on kick down). That means we drive ours at 50bhp/t !
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i've just been looking at a leaf on autotrader just out of curiosities sake. it's actually quite nice inside, outside is a bit bland but i'm not really a car enthusiast as such as far as modern cars go.

anyway, this is why it'd be no good for me personally.

it's a 62kwh with a range of 239 miles which is canny.
to get to cardiff on friday which is 300 miles away. i'd need to set off at home which means leaving it on charge for either 32 hours on a 3 pin plug or 11 hours 30 mins if i had a fast home charger.
lets say i stop to top it back up after 200 miles (would that be a realistic range bearing in mind we just plod on about 60-65ish?) i'd need to stop and charge it up for 2 hours to get it to 80% to complete the journey then leave it somewhere near the ground and possibly top it up whilst be get beat.
leave there with a full charge but still not enough to get home and have to stop for up to 2 hours to get home.
it does say that 2 hours would get the battery up to 80% so i'm presuming you just leave it on charge until you've got enough to get home/wherever with a bit wiggle room?

edit, hope this makes sense :)
 
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