Why don’t the 14 clubs in the top flight...

EssexYid

Central Defender
Competition is healthier? :confused: The only way that comment can be true is if you mean that 6 teams now have a chance of winning the league as how can it be healthier overall as a competition for all 20 teams? Or are you just talking about winning it the fact Man Utd dominated it for so long and then Chelsea bought into it and then Man City bought into it (with Arsenal popping up a few times)?

Surely you realise that now winning trophies doesn't mean they get all the money and nobody else gets any? A team winning the League could get less prize money and this has happened I'm sure. Anyway the prize money difference between winning and coming 6th os £10 million but was £7 million in 2017-18 due to Arsenal being on TV more. Notice how the facilities fees are also bigger for the top 6 teams giving them another £10-20 million or so than the rest.




Do you just make shit up? :lol: Spurs have been Champions League just 4 times, 2011,2017,2018,2019 and Arsenal have been in Champions League 17 of the last 20 seasons missing 2000 and then last season and this season by just 1 point,

Anyway, the Champions League isn't the only cash cow as they got to the Semi last season and got £32 million for it (LINK https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/02/57/82/58/2578258_DOWNLOAD.pdf) and now they'll get a bit more getting to the Final this year.

:EDIT: I meant to highlight this bit in your post also "spurs have been promoted to the champions league regualrly"


Don't be daft man :lol: Teams aren't allowed any more to throw money to the scale Chelsea and Man City did it. Wasn't FFP only brought in fully in 2015?

Which team realistically could now think "hmmm, we reckon within a few years we could break into the top of the table and establish ourselves like Chelsea and Man City?" I doubt even the deluded club Mags think they could do it because one factor is the wages they'd have to pay more than those big 6 to attract decent enough players to come and live up here for starters and very little chance of success in silverware. I guess one big factor that many don't contemplate is exposure to social media and additional money players can generate from that these days. They can also make money from sponsors/ads/promotions and all that shite.

You'd probably need to hoy at least a billion at a club to even buy a team/pay wages that would be able to maintain a challenge with the big boys now given they pull in double revenue what the rest get. Given there's already 6 now with limited access to European places then do you think a rich arab/business would seriously think about that investment now? It's possibly one reason why Ashley is struggling to sell the Mags, not just overpricing them but the fact to now make the big money they'd have to spend huge amounts getting there but they can't do it like Man City recently did (and possibly cheated by doing it!)

The Premier League is like a Monopoly game now as basically the big 6 now have Mayfair/Park Lane, Bond/Fleet/Oxford Streets and all with hotels on so they can afford to land on anywhere on the board . The rest of the league haven't even got as far as Vine Place and can't really afford to land on anything so will just stay where they are! :lol:


They will leave I reckon but as you say the majority of the money will all go into the Champions League. It would be like a World Cup but with domestic teams having picked sides from the pool of 100s of players. It's clearly obvious that 'globally' it will be far more marketable than Burnley v Bournemouth who will be full of unknowns to those watching! :D
"Do you just make shit up? :lol: Spurs have been Champions League just 4 times, 2011,2017,2018,2019 and Arsenal have been in Champions League 17 of the last 20 seasons missing 2000 and then last season and this season by just 1 point" [/QUOTE]

You make some very valid and detailed points MackemX many of which are absolutely correct, but for the sake of accuracy Spurs have actually finished in the top Four 6 times in the last 9 years in 2010, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and Spurs missed out by a point or Two on 3 or 4 occasions.

Juve boss Agnelli announced last feb that the 16 team ESL starting outside uefa in 2021 that had its emails leaked by footieleaks last year is dead after uefa agreed a deal until 2024.
All well n good if they hadn’t just carried on planning a new version to start in 2025! This newer version is a 32 team jobbie with four groups of eight with top four of every group qualifying for a H&A ko system leading to a grande finale. So that’s a minimum of 14 games for the worst teams and a maximum of 23 for the finalists. That can’t be crammed into a normal season. These twats have already said they’d like the top flights reduced to a max of 18, I think they’ll be dropping out of domestic cups nivver mind playing weakened teams as I doubt there’s that many slots in a standard season and 14 games aren’t enough to leave the domestic set ups for.
One weekend and one midweek slot per seven days? International weeks? FA Cup Games? FL games? 14-23 ESL games? The seasons not that long.
The prize money for the top CL clubs will increase significantly when that format starts, which will allow those clubs to buy even better and deeper squads, look at next weeks Champions League Final Spurs v Liverpool where 12 substitutes can be named and up to 4 of them used if extra time is needed.
 
Last edited:

joss

Midfield
:lol: :lol:


They just escaped relegation the season before yet the next season they reverted to form finishing 12th, I suppose I can see why people thought there was more than just the other 6 teams playing shite as to the reason how they did it :lol:

Some keep saying Leicester which is such a blinkered view but they came and went in 1 season. They are the only non 6 big team since 2005 that have finished in the top 4. I'll expand on that as apart from Leicester, since the Premier League started, it's now 25 years since Blackburn won the title and all the rest of the Premier League titles have gone to Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and more recently Man City. So it's only 4 different teams over 24 seasons though Liverpool nearly had a sniff this season and Spurs have recently and chances are they both may get there soon.

That's 27 years of Premier League and given there's now this big 6 domination the chance for someone else winning is even smaller now. Not only has getting into Champions League been made harder, even 6th place now is a challenge and a half for the other teams. What was once a competition is now a heavy weighted race as those 6 teams get top within a few months of the season and stay there.

Over the 25 years prior to the Premier League there were 12 different winners so averaging 1 every 2 seasons. There were also plenty more teams finishing in the top 4 and even more in the top 6. Yet now the non 6 big teams who've finished in the top 6 in the last 20 seasons can be counted on 2 hands . You can count the last 10 seasons non big 6 top 6 finishers on 1 hand as it's progressively got harder to finish top 6!

Yet some try to say it's always been this way :lol: :lol:


See above, there was more variation in the past as it started off with big 2, then 4 of Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Then Man City joined the party and Spurs so now it's the same 6 teams getting the same places at the top in a different orders for the last 3 seasons (getting there within a few months too) and doing it with at least an 8 point gap to 7th
Almost on cue, a related piece about attempting to bridge the gap....

‘The stadium is paramount’: How Everton are plotting a top six push from Bramley Moore Dock
 
You make some very valid and detailed points MackemX many of which are absolutely correct, but for the sake of accuracy Spurs have actually finished in the top Four 6 times in the last 9 years in 2010, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and Spurs missed out by a point or Two on 3 or 4 occasions.
To be honest, I only looked at wiki Spurs years rather than going through the tables. For some reason it hasn't got 2009-2010 as Champions League as it has 2010-11 as Champions League instead. It also has 2015-16 as Europa League even though you finished 3rd :lol:

List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. seasons - Wikipedia



Best you get editing wiki ;) :lol:

You said 2012 but they didn't as Chelsea won CL in 2012 and as Spurs finished in the playoff place they missed out ;) Also the points behind CL places is 1 point just the once and then 6 twice and 10 points.

2010 - Qualified for playoffs in 4th (got through)
2011 - 6 points off playoffs in 5th
2012 - Europa (Only top 3 for CL as Chelsea won it so took the then play off 4th league place from Spurs)
2013 - Europa as Arsenal pipped them 1 point to playoffs
2014 - 10 points behind playoffs in 6th
2015 - 6 points behind playoffs in 5th
2016 - 3rd so qualified for stages
2017 - 2nd so qualified for stages
2018 - 3rd so qualified for stages
2019 - 4th so qualified for stages
I still don't know if this is fact as wiki is shite sometimes!

There’s not 14 teams who’re cannon fodder
^^^^ has me on ignore and hasn't seen the facts :lol: :lol:
 

EssexYid

Central Defender
When Everton do eventually build their new 52,000 capacity stadium it is very unlikely to make any significant inroads into bridging the financial gap to the so called big Six, West Ham for example only made £24.5m from gate receipts for the season 2017/18 that is for a 57,000 capacity stadium in London with some season tickets hovering around the £900 mark, even Manchester United can’t charge more than £950 for their most expensive season tickets, at that price point it deleted their season ticket waiting list, and that has remained the case for the last 5 years or so.

Within the next year or so Spurs annual revenue for example will be £500m plus, Everton’s annual revenue is currently £189m and that figure includes European football, which will be missing when their next year end financial results are released, the new stadium is unlikely to be open before 2023 ? and by that point in time the big Six revenues will be literally hundreds of millions in front of Everton’s.
 
Which says what exactly? They are miles behind in the revenue stakes as the top 6 get over double what Everton in 7th place revenue place in 2017-18. Of course they are gonna say shit as this is just to satifisy the fans demand for success, however as a business they are doing canny. This is what the Mags have come out with, as did we at one stage and it's all just paper talk. Why would they risk spending big money and paying obscene wages in the hope of possibly losing millions because of it?

Aye they are looking to increase the ground by 10,000 (then 20,000) but even at £500 a pop for a ST that's just an extra £5,000,000 a season. What would that pay for these days player wise given that at £100K a week is £5,000,000 a season? They are just looking on ways to improve revenue without breaking the bank. They've bought 2/3 big players a season in recent seasons but haven't been going daft and risking it plus they've also sold players in that time. As a club they haven't been successful but as a business (which clubs are these days) they are doing just great ;)

This is 2017-18 and 2018-19 is going to be interesting as it 2019-20 as I think the gap will be even bigger given their domination at the top in recent seasons.





Everton got a slightly inflated revenue in 2017-18 because they were on TV more and it's mentioned in that article

 
Last edited:

WHO WAS PHONE

Full Back
I'd love to see a playoff format for the title like the Superbowl / Stanley Cup, even if it was just the top 4 rather than 8, would be dead exciting.
 

EssexYid

Central Defender
To be honest, I only looked at wiki Spurs years rather than going through the tables. For some reason it hasn't got 2009-2010 as Champions League as it has 2010-11 as Champions League instead. It also has 2015-16 as Europa League even though you finished 3rd :lol:

List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. seasons - Wikipedia



Best you get editing wiki ;) :lol:

You said 2012 but they didn't as Chelsea won CL in 2012 and as Spurs finished in the playoff place they missed out ;) Also the points behind CL places is 1 point just the once and then 6 twice and 10 points.

2010 - Qualified for playoffs in 4th (got through)
2011 - 6 points off playoffs in 5th
2012 - Europa (Only top 3 for CL as Chelsea won it so took the then play off 4th league place from Spurs)
2013 - Europa as Arsenal pipped them 1 point to playoffs
2014 - 10 points behind playoffs in 6th
2015 - 6 points behind playoffs in 5th
2016 - 3rd so qualified for stages
2017 - 2nd so qualified for stages
2018 - 3rd so qualified for stages
2019 - 4th so qualified for stages
I still don't know if this is fact as wiki is shite sometimes!


^^^^ has me on ignore and hasn't seen the facts :lol: :lol:
Spurs still finished in the top 4 in 2012, that is the criteria for Champions League qualification, if you disagree with my point you can also ignore Everton’s top 4 finish in 2005 as they didn’t actually qualify for the Champions League because they lost their play off game and were relegated to the Europa League.
 

joss

Midfield
Which says what exactly? They are miles behind in the revenue stakes as the top 6 get over double what Everton in 7th place revenue place in 2017-18. Of course they are gonna say shit as this is just to satifisy the fans demand for success, however as a business they are doing canny. This is what the Mags have come out with, as did we at one stage and it's all just paper talk. Why would they risk spending big money and paying obscene wages in the hope of possibly losing millions because of it?

Aye they are looking to increase the ground by 10,000 (then 20,000) but even at £500 a pop for a ST that's just an extra £5,000,000 a season. What would that pay for these days player wise given that at £100K a week is £5,000,000 a season? They are just looking on ways to improve revenue without breaking the bank. They've bought 2/3 big players a season in recent seasons but haven't been going daft and risking it plus they've also sold players in that time. As a club they haven't been successful but as a business (which clubs are these days) they are doing just great ;)

This is 2017-18 and 2018-19 is going to be interesting as it 2019-20 as I think the gap will be even bigger given their domination at the top in recent seasons.





Everton got a slightly inflated revenue in 2017-18 because they were on TV more and it's mentioned in that article

I'm aware of all that and what @EssexYid is saying. There's much more in depth discussions about how we increase revenues. It's very tough, nobody is saying it isn't but my whole point was that we are going to try. I'll say nothing next time :)
 
When Everton do eventually build their new 52,000 capacity stadium it is very unlikely to make any significant inroads into bridging the financial gap to the so called big Six, West Ham for example only made £24.5m from gate receipts for the season 2017/18 that is for a 57,000 capacity stadium in London with some season tickets hovering around the £900 mark, even Manchester United can’t charge more than £950 for their most expensive season tickets, at that price point it deleted their season ticket waiting list, and that has remained the case for the last 5 years or so.

Within the next year or so Spurs annual revenue for example will be £500m plus, Everton’s annual revenue is currently £189m and that figure includes European football, which will be missing when their next year end financial results are released, the new stadium is unlikely to be open before 2023 ? and by that point in time the big Six revenues will be literally hundreds of millions in front of Everton’s.
the thing is everton and most other pl clubs are operating at the very top of the range of what they can achieve revenue wise...a stadium is like the final frontier in terms of what can be achieved-and it is recurring revenue.
 

EssexYid

Central Defender
I'm aware of all that and what @EssexYid is saying. There's much more in depth discussions about how we increase revenues. It's very tough, nobody is saying it isn't but my whole point was that we are going to try. I'll say nothing next time :)
I was talking to lots of Everton fans outside our new stadium the other week, they were all saying how fantastic our new stadium was, we were also discussing Everton’s new stadium it will definitely give their fans a big boost and lift the clubs profile and desirability with it being located in such a great location by the docks.
 
I'm aware of all that and what @EssexYid is saying. There's much more in depth discussions about how we increase revenues. It's very tough, nobody is saying it isn't but my whole point was that we are going to try. I'll say nothing next time :)
Sorry mate, didn't even notice the Everton avatar so just assumed it was another SAFC lad :lol: I can understand why they are trying to increase revenue as it also mentioned merchandise stuff also didn't it? However on the grand scale of things I guess it won't be enough to get up and maintain top 6 like the others are now dominating. You still have a chance of getting up there occasionally though as you're the only team who been hovering in and around the European places compared to other teams.

It's certainly heading towards the European Super League (I reckon sometime in later 2020's) and chances are you'll be in the 2nd division at the least if that division format comes in.
 

joss

Midfield
Sorry mate, didn't even notice the Everton avatar so just assumed it was another SAFC lad :lol: I can understand why they are trying to increase revenue as it also mentioned merchandise stuff also didn't it? However on the grand scale of things I guess it won't be enough to get up and maintain top 6 like the others are now dominating. You still have a chance of getting up there occasionally though as you're the only team who been hovering in and around the European places compared to other teams.

It's certainly heading towards the European Super League (I reckon sometime in later 2020's) and chances are you'll be in the 2nd division at the least if that division format comes in.
No worries. Yeah as things stand it's very, very difficult.

Been the best thread for ages this one.
 

riffraff

Striker
I'd love to see a playoff format for the title like the Superbowl / Stanley Cup, even if it was just the top 4 rather than 8, would be dead exciting.
Ssssh ffs. A KO competition for the top 8 to run after the season was mentioned years ago. If it was resurrected I bet they’d want em played abroad. Mexico City, LA, NYC, Cape Town, Tokyo, Sydney, Beijing. There’s yer seven venues reqd reet there.
 

WHO WAS PHONE

Full Back
Ssssh ffs. A KO competition for the top 8 to run after the season was mentioned years ago. If it was resurrected I bet they’d want em played abroad. Mexico City, LA, NYC, Cape Town, Tokyo, Sydney, Beijing. There’s yer seven venues reqd reet there.
Haha I think that'll happen regardless of the format, unfortunately.
 

EssexYid

Central Defender
If Everton had built their new stadium 10-15 yrs back it’d be a big 7 now.
That is your opinion, personally I don’t think it would have made much difference even then, fact is Everton’s match day income isn’t going to increase that much in the grand scheme of things either now or 10/15 years ago, the debt the stadium will bring will be significant and will eat up any additional income they get which won’t be the case with Spurs.

Spurs new stadium is a different kettle of fish financially, Spurs for example are making more in beer sales alone than West Ham’s total gate receipts, :lol:

Spurs new stadium will generate more revenue than the likes of Arsenal’s and Manchester United’s in total revenues as it is so adaptable for different events, and Haringey Council have been generous with the amount of events that can be held at both full and part capacity.
 
Last edited:

joss

Midfield
That is your opinion, personally I don’t think it would have made much difference even then, fact is Everton’s match day income isn’t going to increase that much in the grand scheme of things either now or 10/15 years ago, the debt the stadium will bring will be significant and will eat up any additional income they get which won’t be the case with Spurs.

Spurs new stadium is a different kettle of fish financially, Spurs for example are making more in beer sales alone than West Ham’s total gate receipts, :lol:

Spurs new stadium will generate more revenue than the likes of Arsenal’s and Manchester United’s in total revenues as it is so adaptable for different events, and Haringey Council have been generous with the amount of events that can be held at both full and part capacity.
I doubt it would have then myself as we had a board who ran the business side like a boys club. As for the future of course we can't charge what others can because of London weighting or the Tourist FC element, but equally we don't know the details yet of this build so we'll have to wait until they are released.

The architect is holding seminars at the minute that echo a lot of what @MackemX is saying about different revenue streams over and beyond the pooled TV money etc. Only by exploring all possibilities can others attempt to catch up:
Dan Meis | World Stadium Congress

STADIA LEADERS EXCHANGE: What Is The Ideal Stadium Of The Future?
Stadiums are no more just a sporting venue but a multi purpose facility catering to numerous activities and stakeholders. They are an essential part of the community and city too. Creating futuristic, sustainable and multi-purpose facilities have become the new trend for stadium and club owners.
  • The future of stadium design, technology, infrastructure and experience
  • Converting non-sporting fans to customers of the future and creating a loyal and engaged fanbase
  • How technology and trends will impact commerciality, partnerships and broadcast
  • Creating sustainable, efficient and commercial strategies for current and future stadiums
TRENDS IN STADIUM DESIGN: BIGGER IS NOT NECESSARILY BETTER
  • Trends in stadium design
  • REVENUE MINING: Finding new revenue streams in venues
  • Gen Z, new generation of fans crave a different kind of experience
 

Top