Why don’t the 14 clubs in the top flight...

You can see why they want to do it as it's exactly as it said here

UEFA envisages substantial changes to its format to ensure a longer group stage in which teams would play in four groups of eight, with the top four teams qualifying for the knockout stages. Such a setup would create dozens more matchups of elite clubs to sell to broadcasters, with some perhaps on weekend dates that are traditionally reserved for domestic league play.

It's obvious that say a game between Burnley and Bournemouth isn't a fraction of what could be marketed with Liverpool v Barcelona worldwide. In time, if they get the cream of the teams in Europe playing each other in 1 mini league they'd have all the better players constantly. It could literally end up like a World Cup tournament with most of the world's best footballers.

They won't give a toss about fans not being able to afford going to away matches. Plus I suppose the home fans of the big 6 would rather prefer seeing the likes of Messi, Ronaldo etc every home game rather than some plodder from some also ran in the Premier League so demand for tickets will be greater!

I suppose one thing that might happen is the big clubs won't drop out of the Premier League but rather just hoy a B team in there (similar thing in Spain isn't there but they can't have 2 teams in same league or summit?). They'll also just feed from the league and snap up any decent players to stop any other teams progressing into the big boys money league! Basically the Premier League break away part but this time they'l be splitting the cream from the top of the division.
 


Exactly! There was more of a mixup and variety of teams every few season. Clubs could bring in unknown players and they'd develop as a team whereas now a team will just be picked apart sharpish if a player is good enough for top 6.

As chriswallace85 couldn't be arsed to answer my earlier question, I've just downloaded the league tables since 1970 and hoyed them into Excel. A simple pivot table just shows how little other teams have finished top 6 and even less in top 4 compared to years ago!

This is the top 6 team list over a 20 year period for 1970-1990 with 26 different teams and the times they were top 6. The period 1999-2019 had just 15 teams with more topsided figures from the big 6 highlighted in red

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This is the top 4 showing even more how hard it is now to break into it! There were 18 teams 1970-90 but there were only 10 between 2000-19. Take out the big 6 it leaves only 6 places out of the 80 with the only 1 top 4 place in the last 14 seasons being Leicester as the other 5 were early 2000's!

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What's even more shite is the last decade has been a canny close shop for other teams trying to get top 4/6 with very few succeeding! Only 5 more teams have managed to get top 6 place a paltry total of 6 times in the last 10 seasons, mainly at just Liverpool's expense. The top 4 is a forgone conclusion these days given the last 3 seasons and points gap to 7th of 8,9,11 points respectively!




How the fuck anyone can think the league is still cyclic when it's heading to a complete shut out is beyond me! :lol: If anything it will get worse as the big 6 just battle it out at the top between themselves like they have the last 3 seasons in a row. With the billions now in the game, the big boys simply have too much revenue every season, at least double than any other team and in some cases triple. This is gained from being at the top that keeps them growing while the rest just toddle along way behind feeding on the scraps. This also allows them to have squad players that would walk into any other team which other teams don't have the luxury of. Or they can fuck up buying players who can't perform whereas it could cripple some of the other teams.

I don't really want them to fuck off to a Super League but it was obvious years ago that it would happen and it has so I can understand why some do want it. I don't know how they could change it as salary caps and drafts etc like NFL would mean players just go to another country.

So for the most part the same teams have been finishing in the top 6 for donkeys years, which is what I said all along. Ipswich and Forest have fallen by the wayside, City and Chelsea have improved.

Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United - always there or thereabouts, and have won the league 50 odd times between them.
 
So for the most part the same teams have been finishing in the top 6 for donkeys years, which is what I said all along. Ipswich and Forest have fallen by the wayside, City and Chelsea have improved.

Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United - always there or thereabouts, and have won the league 50 odd times between them.
Nobody is saying that at all so you've been misunderstood, but there was more of a chance of teams getting high in the table. That is now quite impossible is someone challenging for the title. Even we were 2nd at one point in our Reid days and we thought we had a chance. What that list shows is that more teams used to get top 6 and top 4 and the occasional time, whereas now it's far less with the shocking example of Leicester being the only club in 14 season to be in the top 4!

Did you miss the bit where I said the top 6 now get into the top 6 and stay there partway through the season? In 2017-18 they were top 6 by f***ing Christmas! This season 5 of the 6 got there after 7 games due to Man Utd players taking a strop with Mourihno :lol:

They've done this breakaway partway through season the last 3 seasons and ended up at least 8 points ahead and only a fool would actually bet big money against them not doing it next season. That's why Chelsea and Arsenal are still 1/7 to finish top 6 from the bookies with Man City as low as 1/150! :lol:

bet365 - Top 6 finish 2019/20 odds
 
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Who are there to just be cannon fodder for the “big six” demand change? If they refuse tell them to fuck off and play each other every week.

I’m sick of how boring football is.
Unfortunately, Leicester proved it can be done. The conspiracy is still there though.

Would have been great to see Liverpool win it. We are so far away from that level now.
 
Anyone can break into the top table if they want to, just have to persistently throw money at the club.
Been that way for a hundred years, the figures are bigger, but the principal is the same.
Clubs to have done it recently are Chelsea and City. We were one of the first.

You are right to a certain extent, however for the first 70 or so years of League football there was the maximum wage then right up until the early 80s the clubs with the biggest attendances had to share their gate receipts with the opposition.

That was scrapped due to Man Utd, Everton and Liverpool threatening a breakaway league which ironically happened anyway.

I think we are heading for a ESL within the next 2 decades.
 
You are right to a certain extent, however for the first 70 or so years of League football there was the maximum wage then right up until the early 80s the clubs with the biggest attendances had to share their gate receipts with the opposition.

That was scrapped due to Man Utd, Everton and Liverpool threatening a breakaway league which ironically happened anyway.

I think we are heading for a ESL within the next 2 decades.
Long before then.
 
they havent done the same as spurs in the league-they used to finish above them-now its below them-spurs have been promoted to the champions league regualrly-arsenal relegated from it..
Man Utd have failed to finish top 4 twice in the last 4 seasons so have they been “relegated” aswell?
Man Utd and Arsenal actually win things
Spurs might win the Champions League next week , if they do then fair play they will have something big to shout about
What you’re saying is that actually winning trophies doesn’t matter it’s all about scraping into the Top 4
Just look at the trophy haul of the other 5 and tell me Spurs are in their league !
Poch will want real money to spend soon , if not he will go and then so will Harry more than likely , see what Tottenham are like then
 
They're not taking over Europe at all man. It's one season FFS, and only two of those sides can actually win anything.

The top 4 has opened up massively over the past decade. The competition is healthier. And what will happen when these top 6 clubs rely too heavily on being a top 4 club? Something will give eventually, and that can create opportunities. Top clubs will/should recover, because they've got the infrastructure to do so, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility to fall foul of crippling financial failure.
Competition is healthier? :confused: The only way that comment can be true is if you mean that 6 teams now have a chance of winning the league as how can it be healthier overall as a competition for all 20 teams? Or are you just talking about winning it the fact Man Utd dominated it for so long and then Chelsea bought into it and then Man City bought into it (with Arsenal popping up a few times)?

The money gets bigger but it's all cyclical. Once again, the same clubs tend to win the top trophies.
Surely you realise that now winning trophies doesn't mean they get all the money and nobody else gets any? A team winning the League could get less prize money and this has happened I'm sure. Anyway the prize money difference between winning and coming 6th os £10 million but was £7 million in 2017-18 due to Arsenal being on TV more. Notice how the facilities fees are also bigger for the top 6 teams giving them another £10-20 million or so than the rest.

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they havent done the same as spurs in the league-they used to finish above them-now its below them-spurs have been promoted to the champions league regualrly-arsenal relegated from it..
Do you just make shit up? :lol: Spurs have been Champions League just 4 times, 2011,2017,2018,2019 and Arsenal have been in Champions League 17 of the last 20 seasons missing 2000 and then last season and this season by just 1 point,

Anyway, the Champions League isn't the only cash cow as they got to the Semi last season and got £32 million for it (LINK https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/02/57/82/58/2578258_DOWNLOAD.pdf) and now they'll get a bit more getting to the Final this year.

:EDIT: I meant to highlight this bit in your post also "spurs have been promoted to the champions league regualrly"

Anyone can break into the top table if they want to, just have to persistently throw money at the club.
Been that way for a hundred years, the figures are bigger, but the principal is the same.
Clubs to have done it recently are Chelsea and City. We were one of the first.
Don't be daft man :lol: Teams aren't allowed any more to throw money to the scale Chelsea and Man City did it. Wasn't FFP only brought in fully in 2015?

Which team realistically could now think "hmmm, we reckon within a few years we could break into the top of the table and establish ourselves like Chelsea and Man City?" I doubt even the deluded club Mags think they could do it because one factor is the wages they'd have to pay more than those big 6 to attract decent enough players to come and live up here for starters and very little chance of success in silverware. I guess one big factor that many don't contemplate is exposure to social media and additional money players can generate from that these days. They can also make money from sponsors/ads/promotions and all that shite.

You'd probably need to hoy at least a billion at a club to even buy a team/pay wages that would be able to maintain a challenge with the big boys now given they pull in double revenue what the rest get. Given there's already 6 now with limited access to European places then do you think a rich arab/business would seriously think about that investment now? It's possibly one reason why Ashley is struggling to sell the Mags, not just overpricing them but the fact to now make the big money they'd have to spend huge amounts getting there but they can't do it like Man City recently did (and possibly cheated by doing it!)

The Premier League is like a Monopoly game now as basically the big 6 now have Mayfair/Park Lane, Bond/Fleet/Oxford Streets and all with hotels on so they can afford to land on anywhere on the board . The rest of the league haven't even got as far as Vine Place and can't really afford to land on anything so will just stay where they are! :lol:

The minute the top 6 leave so does the cash. Premier will be no more affluent than the champo then.
They will leave I reckon but as you say the majority of the money will all go into the Champions League. It would be like a World Cup but with domestic teams having picked sides from the pool of 100s of players. It's clearly obvious that 'globally' it will be far more marketable than Burnley v Bournemouth who will be full of unknowns to those watching! :D
 
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Don't be daft man :lol: Teams aren't allowed any more to throw money to the scale Chelsea and Man City did it. Wasn't FFP only brought in fully in 2015?

If someone is rich enough, they can do it.
FPP if even enforced just means you don't go into Europe for a bit.
A year transfer ban is meh if you have already bought the best players in the world.

With enough money and the will, any team could be the next Man City.
 
If someone is rich enough, they can do it.
FPP if even enforced just means you don't go into Europe for a bit.
A year transfer ban is meh if you have already bought the best players in the world.

With enough money and the will, any team could be the next Man City.
:lol: :lol:

Unfortunately, Leicester proved it can be done. The conspiracy is still there though..
They just escaped relegation the season before yet the next season they reverted to form finishing 12th, I suppose I can see why people thought there was more than just the other 6 teams playing shite as to the reason how they did it :lol:

Some keep saying Leicester which is such a blinkered view but they came and went in 1 season. They are the only non 6 big team since 2005 that have finished in the top 4. I'll expand on that as apart from Leicester, since the Premier League started, it's now 25 years since Blackburn won the title and all the rest of the Premier League titles have gone to Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and more recently Man City. So it's only 4 different teams over 24 seasons though Liverpool nearly had a sniff this season and Spurs have recently and chances are they both may get there soon.

That's 27 years of Premier League and given there's now this big 6 domination the chance for someone else winning is even smaller now. Not only has getting into Champions League been made harder, even 6th place now is a challenge and a half for the other teams. What was once a competition is now a heavy weighted race as those 6 teams get top within a few months of the season and stay there.

Over the 25 years prior to the Premier League there were 12 different winners so averaging 1 every 2 seasons. There were also plenty more teams finishing in the top 4 and even more in the top 6. Yet now the non 6 big teams who've finished in the top 6 in the last 20 seasons can be counted on 2 hands . You can count the last 10 seasons non big 6 top 6 finishers on 1 hand as it's progressively got harder to finish top 6!

Yet some try to say it's always been this way :lol: :lol:

Has there ever been a period in the top division where there hasn't been a big 2,3,4,5 etc?

Surely we're one of the best leagues with us having at least a big 6, rather than France for example.
See above, there was more variation in the past as it started off with big 2, then 4 of Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Then Man City joined the party and Spurs so now it's the same 6 teams getting the same places at the top in a different orders for the last 3 seasons (getting there within a few months too) and doing it with at least an 8 point gap to 7th
 
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:lol: :lol:


They just escaped relegation the season before yet the next season they reverted to form finishing 12th, I suppose I can see why people thought there was more than just the other 6 teams playing shite as to the reason how they did it :lol:

Some keep saying Leicester which is such a blinkered view but they came and went in 1 season. They are the only non 6 big team since 2005 that have finished in the top 4. I'll expand on that as apart from Leicester, since the Premier League started, it's now 25 years since Blackburn won the title and all the rest of the Premier League titles have gone to Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and more recently Man City. So it's only 4 different teams over 24 seasons though Liverpool nearly had a sniff this season and Spurs have recently and chances are they both may get there soon.

That's 27 years of Premier League and given there's now this big 6 domination the chance for someone else winning is even smaller now. Not only has getting into Champions League been made harder, even 6th place now is a challenge and a half for the other teams. What was once a competition is now a heavy weighted race as those 6 teams get top within a few months of the season and stay there.

Over the 25 years prior to the Premier League there were 12 different winners so averaging 1 every 2 seasons. There were also plenty more teams finishing in the top 4 and even more in the top 6. Yet now the non 6 big teams who've finished in the top 6 in the last 20 seasons can be counted on 2 hands . You can count the last 10 seasons non big 6 top 6 finishers on 1 hand as it's progressively got harder to finish top 6!

Yet some try to say it's always been this way :lol: :lol:


See above, there was more variation in the past as it started off with big 2, then 4 of Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Then Man City joined the party and Spurs so now it's the same 6 teams getting the same places at the top in a different orders for the last 3 seasons (getting there within a few months too) and doing it with at least an 8 point gap to 7th
Forget the graphs,data,flowcharts
Man Utd,Liverpool,Arsenal are the blue riband clubs , the first two are worldwide,Arsenal have the next best profile .Man City have everything needed to become as big as these 3 for the long haul,Chelsea are at a crossroads, Man City have overtaken them and the Russian doesn’t seem as interested, they should do but are by no means certain to stay there if things go wrong , if they stay solvent they will still attract high end players
That leaves Spurs .Doing well right now through astute signings by Poch and Kane being a bit of a phenomenon, but they have nowhere near the clout of the others when it comes to world profile.
Asia ,Africa,America WANT United,Lpool,Arsenal and naybe City and Chelsea too .akong with Barca,Real and mayhem Juve ,Bayern
You could swap Spurs for say West Ham and it wouldn’t matter a jot to anybody really.
They are not guaranteed to stay the 6th best in England like the other 5 are guaranteed to be up there perpetually
Shiny new stadium won’t clinch the deal either

Size, history and geographic representation.
So where do they go?
Straight from the Middle of the Premier League to Div 3 South while Pompey and Sunderland leapfrog them?
Talk about engineer things to suit your own ends !
 
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Forget the graphs,data,flowcharts
Man Utd,Liverpool,Arsenal are the blue riband clubs , the first two are worldwide,Arsenal have the next best profile .Man City have everything needed to become as big as these 3 for the long haul,Chelsea are at a crossroads, Man City have overtaken them and the Russian doesn’t seem as interested, they should do but are by no means certain to stay there if things go wrong , if they stay solvent they will still attract high end players
That leaves Spurs .Doing well right now through astute signings by Poch and Kane being a bit of a phenomenon, but they have nowhere near the clout of the others when it comes to world profile.
Asia ,Africa,America WANT United,Lpool,Arsenal and naybe City and Chelsea too .akong with Barca,Real and mayhem Juve ,Bayern
You could swap Spurs for say West Ham and it wouldn’t matter a jot to anybody really.
They are not guaranteed to stay the 6th best in England like the other 5 are guaranteed to be up there perpetually
Shiny new stadium won’t clinch the deal either
Far bigger worldwide than West Ham and growing as they moved up above Inter Milan on the social media tables. They'll probably hit 20 million total soon if they haven't already as their global exposure due to Champions League has an effect on their revenues improving also.

The 20 most popular rich-list football teams on social media

Given the increase in their last 2 finishes getting into Champions League and now getting to a Final, they'll grow even more and have some clout in the market no doubt. This is the 2017-18 revenue below and Spurs wage bill isn't nowhere as high as the other top 5 and they'll break through £400 million this season no problem.

I expect some big signing as Spurs look to push on as they've already got £90+ million for getting to Champions League final to look forward to. The new stadium and location will be a draw for players in some way plus I reckon they'll look to get Gareth Bale back.

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Forget the graphs,data,flowcharts
Man Utd,Liverpool,Arsenal are the blue riband clubs , the first two are worldwide,Arsenal have the next best profile .Man City have everything needed to become as big as these 3 for the long haul,Chelsea are at a crossroads, Man City have overtaken them and the Russian doesn’t seem as interested, they should do but are by no means certain to stay there if things go wrong , if they stay solvent they will still attract high end players
That leaves Spurs .Doing well right now through astute signings by Poch and Kane being a bit of a phenomenon, but they have nowhere near the clout of the others when it comes to world profile.
Asia ,Africa,America WANT United,Lpool,Arsenal and naybe City and Chelsea too .akong with Barca,Real and mayhem Juve ,Bayern
You could swap Spurs for say West Ham and it wouldn’t matter a jot to anybody really.
They are not guaranteed to stay the 6th best in England like the other 5 are guaranteed to be up there perpetually
Shiny new stadium won’t clinch the deal either


So where do they go?
Straight from the Middle of the Premier League to Div 3 South while Pompey and Sunderland leapfrog them?
Talk about engineer things to suit your own ends !
I never said that, thickhead
 
Far bigger worldwide than West Ham and growing as they moved up above Inter Milan on the social media tables. They'll probably hit 20 million total soon if they haven't already as their global exposure due to Champions League has an effect on their revenues improving also.

The 20 most popular rich-list football teams on social media

Given the increase in their last 2 finishes getting into Champions League and now getting to a Final, they'll grow even more and have some clout in the market no doubt. This is the 2017-18 revenue below and Spurs wage bill isn't nowhere as high as the other top 5 and they'll break through £400 million this season no problem.

I expect some big signing as Spurs look to push on as they've already got £90+ million for getting to Champions League final to look forward to. The new stadium and location will be a draw for players in some way plus I reckon they'll look to get Gareth Bale back.

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You certainly do your research !
Doesn’t matter though ,Spurs are only ever going to be 2 bad seasons away from coming back to the pack unlike the others (maybe not Chelsea if things unravel)
I appreciate being In London can help and if they perform at their current level for the next 3-5 and actually WIN some trophies they could stay in the elite but Levy’s not going to change his ways is he
They will never pay what Man Utd/City pay in wages and if it wasn’t for the fact he’s one of their own and so has loyalty to them up to a point they would have cashed in on Kane by now
Erikson will go in the next 12 months I reckon

I never said that, thickhead
So where do they go then ?
Thick head? Are you one of them internet hard man types? No need
 
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You certainly do your research !
Doesn’t matter though ,Spurs are only ever going to be 2 bad seasons away from coming back to the pack unlike the others (maybe not Chelsea if things unravel)
I appreciate being In London can help and if they perform at their current level for the next 3-5 and actually WIN some trophies they could stay in the elite but Levy’s not going to change his ways is he
They will never pay what Man Utd/City pay in wages and if it wasn’t for the fact he’s one of their own and so has loyalty to them up to a point they would have cashed in on Kane by now
Erikson will go in the next 12 months I reckon


So where do they go then ?
Thick head? Are you one of them internet hard man types? No need

I made a list...I didn’t restructure English football.
 
I think it would work me like.
And the bottom club of the super league 6 fighting off relegation into the slums of the Premier League :mad:
 
I think it would work me like.
And the bottom club of the super league 6 fighting off relegation into the slums of the Premier League :mad:
To Mackem X
As far as Spurs go I’m not saying they will sink to anywhere near the same depths but they are like Newcastle late 90’s and Leeds early 2000’s , Champions League qualifications more than once and looking like the real deal for a while before it all goes tits up, which in their case finishing 5th for a couple of seasons in a row would be disastrous
To Boris Bear , wasn’t being clever with you
Just saying those clubs would to be in there as things stand
 
Juve boss Agnelli announced last feb that the 16 team ESL starting outside uefa in 2021 that had its emails leaked by footieleaks last year is dead after uefa agreed a deal until 2024.
All well n good if they hadn’t just carried on planning a new version to start in 2025! This newer version is a 32 team jobbie with four groups of eight with top four of every group qualifying for a H&A ko system leading to a grande finale. So that’s a minimum of 14 games for the worst teams and a maximum of 23 for the finalists. That can’t be crammed into a normal season. These twats have already said they’d like the top flights reduced to a max of 18, I think they’ll be dropping out of domestic cups nivver mind playing weakened teams as I doubt there’s that many slots in a standard season and 14 games aren’t enough to leave the domestic set ups for.
One weekend and one midweek slot per seven days? International weeks? FA Cup Games? FL games? 14-23 ESL games? The seasons not that long.
 

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