White supremacists matching in Virginia

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Red N White Baron said:
There are more people enslaved today than have ever been enslaved by white westerners. Yet people are still determined to punish white men for their history.
People concentrate on the Deep South idiots rather than the 29 million slaves in non-white countries today.
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How are white men being punished for their history?

You probably make a reasonable general point but I don't think its relevant in this context.
 


HellsBells said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/senorrinhatch/status/896486793083842560

At least some Republicans senators have the balls to call it like it is.
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Less then a handful though. The republican party has attempted to appease fascists because they want their vote, they have given them space in society. The GOP are a disgrace.

safcrhys said:
The far right are ***** and the far left are also *****.
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The far left are not involved in this discussion though. It was a nazi rally which killed people, the far left killed nobody.
 
HarrogateMackem said:
The far left are not involved in this discussion though. It was a nazi rally which killed people, the far left killed nobody.
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Unfortunately, debate on here often means dragging in any old cobblers to support your side of the argument, irrespective of whether it is relevant to the subject. As the saying goes 'It wouldn't be a show without Punch'.
 
HarrogateMackem said:
Less then a handful though. The republican party has attempted to appease fascists because they want their vote, they have given them space in society. The GOP are a disgrace.



The far left are not involved in this discussion though. It was a nazi rally which killed people, the far left killed nobody.
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They've always had space in society, wasn't there a report which concluded at the beginning of 2016 about racism in America?
 
Tadger said:
The one single thing about white nationalism I can sort of understand is the "white pride" aspect. In as much that other ethnicities whether it be Afro-Caribbean, Asian, Hispanic etc are encouraged to embrace their identity and aren't pilloried by wider society for doing so.
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I think the difference is that those groups are doing that because for generations - and in living memory - they have been told that they are inferior, and painted at times as literally sub-human, and have been treated as such economically and politically. So like gay pride, it's a reaction against that - it's not just an embracing of their identity, it's a defiance against all of the times they were told they were inferior, less than human. I don't think you can take that out of the equation. It's not just pride in your culture. It's pride in your culture despite centuries of being told it's shit and worthless.

It's like the statue where this thread kicked off. I get your principled argument about not rewriting history (and I don't think for a moment on this thread you are doing anything other than arguing in good faith, btw). But put yourself in the position of one of the black people who make up about a fifth of Charlottesville's population. Your ancestors - maybe your great-great grandparents were slaves. Treated as property, casually raped, murdered, worked half to death. A war was fought to free them, but some people led the fighting on the side that wanted to keep owning human beings as disposable property. One of the parks in your town, has a big statue of one of those men. Through your property taxes, you have to pay for the upkeep of his statue and the park, commemorating the man who was one of the most successful leaders in the fighting to keep your ancestors as slaves. It's easy for us to be all well, it's only history. But in their shoes, from that perspective, I don't think it would be so easy.
 
Tadger said:
I suppose the only way a white person could be treated less equally is if he missed out on a job opportunity he was more qualified for to fill an ethnic quota. Beyond that, white people whinging about inequality need to get a grip.

The one single thing about white nationalism I can sort of understand is the "white pride" aspect. In as much that other ethnicities whether it be Afro-Caribbean, Asian, Hispanic etc are encouraged to embrace their identity and aren't pilloried by wider society for doing so. It has to be said though that you'd be hard pressed to find a self-confessed white nationalist that didn't in his heart of hearts believe that white people are inherently superior to other races. The "separate but equal" idea that was prevalent in the segregated USA and Apartheid SA was a complete joke.

I'll admit and I'll probably receive pelters for this but I don't want the white race to just disappear in a bit melting pot, I like the diversity of the human race and think it would be a shame for us to become a homogeneous non-descript mish-mash. That said, I don't disagree with inter-relationships and it's certainly not something that's going to happen in my lifetime so not much point worrying about it really.
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With regards to the culture bit, I think that it's an effort to rebalance. In general in the west it can be assumed that 'culture' generally equates to 'white culture'. Everything about the west has been set up to glorify the white man - even some things that don't warrant glorification. We're already well served where other groups - who've been marginalised for generations - need a rebalance. As for the last bit, I understand your thinking but think that it would stray too close to concerted racial purity if it was attempted. Compared with the dangers of that id chose the melting pot
 
A stupid argument I hear time and time again from idiots is "If they called me a white **** I wouldn't be bothered"

You wouldn't be bothered as it doesn't affect you in every part of your life. You don't walk down the street in fear of being harassed or beating up because you are white. You don't get pulled over by the police because you are white, you don't lose job opportunities because you are white etc.

If all those things impact you then youd be very very bothered.
 
The King of Um said:
I think the difference is that those groups are doing that because for generations - and in living memory - they have been told that they are inferior, and painted at times as literally sub-human, and have been treated as such economically and politically. So like gay pride, it's a reaction against that - it's not just an embracing of their identity, it's a defiance against all of the times they were told they were inferior, less than human. I don't think you can take that out of the equation. It's not just pride in your culture. It's pride in your culture despite centuries of being told it's shit and worthless.

It's like the statue where this thread kicked off. I get your principled argument about not rewriting history (and I don't think for a moment on this thread you are doing anything other than arguing in good faith, btw). But put yourself in the position of one of the black people who make up about a fifth of Charlottesville's population. Your ancestors - maybe your great-great grandparents were slaves. Treated as property, casually raped, murdered, worked half to death. A war was fought to free them, but some people led the fighting on the side that wanted to keep owning human beings as disposable property. One of the parks in your town, has a big statue of one of those men. Through your property taxes, you have to pay for the upkeep of his statue and the park, commemorating the man who was one of the most successful leaders in the fighting to keep your ancestors as slaves. It's easy for us to be all well, it's only history. But in their shoes, from that perspective, I don't think it would be so easy.
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Good post.
 
The King of Um said:
I think the difference is that those groups are doing that because for generations - and in living memory - they have been told that they are inferior, and painted at times as literally sub-human, and have been treated as such economically and politically. So like gay pride, it's a reaction against that - it's not just an embracing of their identity, it's a defiance against all of the times they were told they were inferior, less than human. I don't think you can take that out of the equation. It's not just pride in your culture. It's pride in your culture despite centuries of being told it's shit and worthless.

It's like the statue where this thread kicked off. I get your principled argument about not rewriting history (and I don't think for a moment on this thread you are doing anything other than arguing in good faith, btw). But put yourself in the position of one of the black people who make up about a fifth of Charlottesville's population. Your ancestors - maybe your great-great grandparents were slaves. Treated as property, casually raped, murdered, worked half to death. A war was fought to free them, but some people led the fighting on the side that wanted to keep owning human beings as disposable property. One of the parks in your town, has a big statue of one of those men. Through your property taxes, you have to pay for the upkeep of his statue and the park, commemorating the man who was one of the most successful leaders in the fighting to keep your ancestors as slaves. It's easy for us to be all well, it's only history. But in their shoes, from that perspective, I don't think it would be so easy.
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Then maybe a solution is rather than remove it, remove it's funding? Don't know enough about the statue but think we're just as bad as radicals roaming the desert blowing up centuries old relics and monuments if we begin airbrushing history. Then again I doubt this will be forgotten. Think of history in general, stories pass from generation to generation and this will be their history... hate to think they're gonna have statues with dafties taking selfies.
 
TK-421 said:
How so pal?
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One example would be that for civil rights campaigners to highlight prejudice against black people in housing, which is 100% proven and leads to the average black household needing to earn twice as much as the average white family does for a comparable quality of life, would be highly provocative to the people who marched for Lee yesterday. But the only way they could not be provocative to the people who marched for Lee yesterday would be to cease to exist. It's simply not an equal situation and to argue that it is gives an entirely undeserved credibility to people who are absolutely appalling and unfairly characterises people who are behaving exactly as you would in their shoes as being as bad as Nazis.
 
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