What's going to happen to China, long term?

My second life said:
I was told by a Chinese guy that in the great famine, when the direct death toll was estimated around 40 million, poverty and starvation led some rural chinese to take their children to neighbouring villages to exchange for other village's children. The children were then cannibalised. He seemed very sincere. What can you say, the barbarity of Mao and the trauma that was visited on the people was so deep yet we frame questions amongst ourselves that quite possibly have no echo in their frame of cultural reference.
Click to expand...

This is also a bad take because China is a very different place to that of the Mao era, and it's ludicrous to float cultural stereotypes over what happened 60 years ago.

It's like drawing conclusions on modern Britain from life in the 1950s.
 


MarcoGoalo said:
Link to that if possible
Click to expand...

www.aljazeera.com

China sends essential coronavirus supplies to Italy

China steps in to help Italy in its time of need as wealthy businessman Jack Ma offers to donate supplies to the US.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

www.straitstimes.com

Coronavirus: China sends expert team, medical supplies to Italy and Spain

ROME/MADRID (XINHUA, REUTERS) - A consignment of medical supplies sent by China to help Italy and Spain contain the coronavirus has arrived in Europe, the Chinese embassy in Madrid said on Thursday (March 12). Read more at straitstimes.com.
www.straitstimes.com www.straitstimes.com

www.forbes.com

Norway Closes All Airports To Foreigners As Coronavirus Cases Mount

From 8am CET on Monday, March 16, all Norwegian airports and seaports will close to non-Norwegians, with border controls tightened.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
Frijj said:
I disagree that China aren't responsible for the global caseload and fatalities. This originated in their country, due to their cultural practices even after one global pandemic was caused by said practices. They must learn their lesson but fortunately that appears to be the case.
Click to expand...

I think calling it a "cultural practice" is a bit unfair because the vast majority of Chinese are not into this kind of thing, and I have never found that to be my experience.

It's like blaming the entire UK as a whole for unacceptable acts done by a minority of this population, it's unacceptable. Even if you can accurately point towards the virus emerging within these markets, to stigmatize the entire country is unacceptable.

It's the same logic as saying Islam has to apologize for terrorism.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Frijj said:
I disagree that China aren't responsible for the global caseload and fatalities. This originated in their country, due to their cultural practices even after one global pandemic was caused by said practices. They must learn their lesson but fortunately that appears to be the case.
Click to expand...

Let’s forget the markets for a minute.

The Chinese government tried their level best to keep it quiet. They have arrested dr’s, reporters etc tat first started to make noise about it. Only yesterday another corona critic has vanished. How many people left China whilst this was being hushed up?

Damn right they are responsible, even if partly. I don’t agree with all the racist stereotyping around atm and he has a point about that but his post reads like something a Chinese official would try have us belive.
 
MrOompapa said:
I have never met a single person who eats these kinds of things, and believe me I know a lot of Chinese people and have a lot of contacts.

Irrespective of how the virus has originated there is an obnoxious amount of cultural and racial profiling in this thread, playing on vivid imagery of a foreign exotic people eating "abnormal" things and that we are thus the hub of civilization.

I don't think so, major outbreaks in every country of Europe tells us that we do not have the advantages over China that we think we have here.
Click to expand...
You have visited China a lot. You must have eaten some different things? I know I have on my handful of visits.
 
MrOompapa said:
I think calling it a "cultural practice" is a bit unfair because the majority of Chinese are not into this kind of thing, and I have never found that to be my experience.

It's like blaming the entire UK as a whole for unacceptable acts done by a minority of this population, it's unacceptable. Even if you can point towards the virus emerging within these markets, to stigmatize the entire country is unacceptable.

It's the same logic as saying Islam has to apologize for terrorism.
Click to expand...

What is a better term?

The virus originated because the Chinese didn't learn their lesson from SARS.

Wet markets are breeding grounds for zoonotic diseases, this was well-documented from the SARS epidemic.

They knew. The Chinese government knew and allowed these wet markets to continue operating. Personally I do not see how they can be absolved of blame, if they knew the risk and failed to take action.

I am not stigmatising the entire Chinese population, I am however blaming their government for inaction that will cause millions of deaths in the largest pandemic of a generation, if not a century.
 
Frijj said:
What is a better term?

The virus originated because the Chinese didn't learn their lesson from SARS.

Wet markets are breeding grounds for zoonotic diseases, this was well-documented from the SARS epidemic.

They knew. The Chinese government knew and allowed these wet markets to continue operating. Personally I do not see how they can be absolved of blame, if they knew the risk and failed to take action.

I am not stigmatising the entire Chinese population, I am however blaming their government for inaction that will cause millions of deaths in the largest pandemic of a generation, if not a century.
Click to expand...

Well that's a better way to frame it, arguing that it is in fact political negligence than a "cultural practice" and of course there's some grounds for that argument in the early stages, even if they have successfully overcome it themselves.

The wildlife trade has always been wrong, and it's also wrong that its also subjected endangered species such as Pangolins to consumption (this appears to be a more likely source of the outbreak, not bats).

Chinese people themselves have also been very angry at the authorities over their handling of their situation, especially over perceived early coverups in Hubei. But I don't think there will be any global repercussions for them as a whole.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MrOompapa said:
arguing that it is in fact political negligence than a "cultural practice" and of course there's some grounds for that argument in the early stages
Click to expand...

This is my point. They could have done more at the start instead of the usual suppression tactics. You can articulate yourself a lot better than myself.

My apologies anyway, Sorry if I was harsh up thread buddy.

btw, how angry are the people? Or is it low scale now it’s under control?(and I appreciate you can’t get overly angry over there)
 
Last edited:
MrOompapa said:
I don't think so, they are sending masks, support and personnel to Italy. People in Italy were chanting "Grazie China" out of their windows.

Norway and Spain are also receiving support from China.

The idea that China has to globally account for this is wrong and misleading.


China have completely eradicated the outbreak in their own country, and the emergence of new cases in Europe and elsewhere had no direct link to it.

If anything, we now need their support to get through this situation ourselves.


China banned these markets at least a month ago. I strongly encourage people not to play the politics of blame here especially seen as Europe are now increasingly reliant on them for support in overcoming their own outbreak.
Click to expand...

I’d say a disease starting in China then spreading through the rest of the world has a pretty direct link to China.

It’s likely this was spreading for some time before China acknowledged its existence.

They need to shoulder a lot of blame for the pandemic.
 
ShaolinKungFu said:
This is my point. They could have done more at the start instead of the usual suppression tactics. You can articulate yourself a lot better than myself.

My apologies anyway, Sorry if I was harsh up thread buddy.

btw, how angry are the people? Or is it low scale now it’s under control?(and I appreciate you can’t get overly angry over there)
Click to expand...

When Dr Li wenliang died Chinese social media (which is Weibo and Wechat) exploded in extreme anger. Even people I know who are very supportive of the Communist Party saw his death, as a whistle blower, as a moral atrocity. Despite censorship efforts "I want freedom of speech" (written in Chinese) was the top trending item.

Now however, I have to be honest in saying life in China is getting back to normal and that anger is only really concentrated around Wuhan and key lockdown areas where people have paid the biggest price to their lives.

Chinese are also very nationalistic, and so are taking pride in the fact they have mostly overcame the challenge as the world around them descends into chaos.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MrOompapa said:
When Dr Li wenliang died Chinese social media (which is Weibo and Wechat) exploded in extreme anger. Even people I know who are very supportive of the Communist Party saw his death, as a whistle blower, as a moral atrocity.

Now however, I have to be honest in saying life in China is getting back to normal and that anger is only really concentrated around Wuhan and key lockdown areas where people have paid the biggest price to their lives.

Chinese are also very nationalistic, and so are taking pride in the fact they have mostly overcame the challenge as the world around them descends into chaos.
Click to expand...

I see. I suppose it’s easy to sit from afar and have an opinion. Hopefully now they are just about over it their weight can be thrown behind helping everyone else, as is already happening.

I visited China around 2003, absolutely beautiful but I felt I needed about a year or so to even scratch the surface of the place. Fascinating all the same.
 
Whilst we’re criticising shocking animal hygiene increasing risks to health the worldwide chicken trade has to be a risk for avian flu outbreaks. Not the same variety of species obviously but disgusting practices still all around the world. Maybe the same for USA super pig/ cattle farms?
 
MrOompapa said:
I don't think so, they are sending masks, support and personnel to Italy. People in Italy were chanting "Grazie China" out of their windows.

Norway and Spain are also receiving support from China.

The idea that China has to globally account for this is wrong and misleading.


China have completely eradicated the outbreak in their own country, and the emergence of new cases in Europe and elsewhere had no direct link to it.

If anything, we now need their support to get through this situation ourselves.


China banned these markets at least a month ago. I strongly encourage people not to play the politics of blame here especially seen as Europe are now increasingly reliant on them for support in overcoming their own outbreak.
Click to expand...
No way has China eradicated this. It will come back.
 
They have 831 million (from 2017, probably closer to a billion by now) people living in cities and dense urban areas. That's roughly a quarter of everyone in the world living in urban areas do so in China. <irony>Even with the perfect hygiene and food practices of the white world you'd still expect a huge number of disease to come from there</irony>. If you then start to filter for temperate and sub tropical conditions that proportion goes up through the roof. If you wanted to have a guess where the majority of major disease would pop up, you'd pretty much draw a circle around exactly where they do regardless of the cultural or racial characteristics of the folk who live there.
 
When was the last time the moaners on this thread ate a Chinese or a Kebab takeaway in a city centre. Well chances are it would not make the grade in China... Bat's have been eaten since the Flintstone era /Cave dwellers.
China = The Worker bees of Planet earth.
đź‘Ť
 

Back
Top