What shares you buying?

Edinburgh Black Cat said:
Just checked halifax. £12.50 per trade. Also £12.50 per year admin charge for the ISA.

I wouldn't be investing huge amounts (maybe £10k in total over the year) but as you say I'd be more inclined to diversify if it is low fee per transaction.

How do 212 make their money if they don't charge fees?
Click to expand...

Doesnt mean an awful lot to me but as per trading 212

"Trading 212 is making money from its CFD business where the main revenue comes from spread and interest swap"

There doesn't appear to be a limited. I was arsing on with ten quid transactions left right and centre last week with the wirecard collapse and it's assumed dead cat bounce.

I was about 400 percent up at the end of all the transactions in one day. If I had used Hargreaves lansdown the transaction fees would have been more than my investment every time.
 


Wild Card said:
Doesnt mean an awful lot to me but as per trading 212

"Trading 212 is making money from its CFD business where the main revenue comes from spread and interest swap"

There doesn't appear to be a limited. I was arsing on with ten quid transactions left right and centre last week with the wirecard collapse and it's assumed dead cat bounce.

I was about 400 percent up at the end of all the transactions in one day. If I had used Hargreaves lansdown the transaction fees would have been more than my investment every time.
Click to expand...

I see they do a refer a friend thing, fancy referring me?
 
Wild Card said:
Doesnt mean an awful lot to me but as per trading 212

"Trading 212 is making money from its CFD business where the main revenue comes from spread and interest swap"

There doesn't appear to be a limited. I was arsing on with ten quid transactions left right and centre last week with the wirecard collapse and it's assumed dead cat bounce.

I was about 400 percent up at the end of all the transactions in one day. If I had used Hargreaves lansdown the transaction fees would have been more than my investment every time.
Click to expand...
I can explain that if you like.
 
Hoyahamma said:
Investing is very simple,don't follow the crowd .An index fund will get you nowhere.

If you worry about money THEN follow the crowd,and end up in the same place as the crowd
You need to leverage up at whatever debt amount you are comfortable with.

The simple explanation is to use the richest man in the world at any time over the last 200 years as an example.

Today that is Jeff Bezos .His wealth is comprised of 55 million shares in Amazon,the company he started,each of those shares is worth approx$3100.Call it US$170 billion,unless I have got my mental arithmetic wrong.

Amazon as a company has debt of 75 billion the last time I looked( leverage).They have been leveraged from day 1 ,borrow money to get the company started .

As it is the start of a new decade then it is very simple to see what is going on.Then it depends how old you are.

Amazon started the year at a price of $1900 per share.Borrow 1900 then and buy 1 share.For the rest of your life you can now follow that share price and see what happens if you follow the example of the world's richest man.That share is now worth $3100.So you are up 63% year to date.

Leverage up more and say you borrowed $19000 and bought ten shares( £15000 approx) .They are now worth $31000 obviously.

You have the rest of your life to pay off that £15K.You will probably never have to spend anything else.Your fortunes are now tied to the fortune of the richest man in the world.

Over your life you will spend more than £15K buying cars and be very happy to do that,the crowd do that so it is OK.Those cars will end up as scrap Your guess will be as good as anybodies as to what Amazon shares will be worth in 20 or 30 years time, depending how old you are.

I can give you the history of Amazon shares.At the I P O price was $18 when it was floated in1997.They have had 3 splits since then two 2 for 1 and one 3 for one.So 1 share becomes 2 shares,then 4 shares then 12 shares ( 3 for 1 being the last split).Your $18 grows to $37,200 approx over 23 years.Using leverage then obviously $180 grows to $372,000 and $1800 grows to $3,720,000.Not hard to work out why the rich get richer is it.

There is a great piss take going on at the moment,Elon Musk taking the piss out of experts that have doubted for years that Tesla would ever be a going concern .Tesla share price has rocketed lately.The experts have advising short selling Tesla for a long time and Musk has made fools out of them.

As far as I know Tesla still runs at a loss but good on him for taking the piss while things are going his way .

Short selling is where you make money when stock prices fall.Borrow shares from a pension fund,say Amazon shares.Borrow 1000 shares from the pension fund,sell them for $3.1 million.You think that the price of Amazon shares is going to fall,they fall say $50 overnight. You buy them back at that reduced price and make $50K for 1 day,minus the cost of the option.An options broker will supply the price of the option for you.DO NOT go anywhere near options,leave that to people like me that have been doing this for a lot of decades.


To sum up,tomorrow you can buy 1 share in Amazon for $3100 and see how it goes over the next 23 years.For the next 23 years " the crowd" will tell you every day how you are wrong,you didn't follow them.

You don't even need to spend any money .Watch Amazon for the next 23 years and regret not spending $3100.If Amazon goes bad then sell that one share whenever you want.

Keep a note of the coming decades.The note is I did not spend $1900 on 2/1/2020 to buy 1 share in Amazon and put trust in Jefff Bezos to create wealth for you over the coming 23 years.Or,fuck me I'm glad I didn't buy that one share in Amazon,they went bust.

Bezos made a tidy sum last night,Amazon went up by $81,so $81 X 55million.

Depending how they go tonight ( for me) if they fall by $81 a share then he is back to square 1.These are the classes you have to bear.



Also own a dog.Treat that dog well and for the next 10 to 15 years no matter what happens,that dog is going to think you are the greatest thing that has ever existed.
Click to expand...

I hope you copy and pasted that novel.
 
Wild Card said:
Please do, this I why I love the smb everyday is a school day.
Click to expand...
Ok a cfd is what is called a contract for difference. Its a bilateral agreement between you and the provider (212) to exchange whatever amount of notional for the thing you are trading. It's a derivative contract and a not a security. They are not obliged to provide you with a market price. So if a share is trading 10 for example they will make you pay 10.1 so they sell at 10.1 to you and they hedge their risk at 10 thereby locking in what we call the spread. You don't own anything other than an agreement for 212 to make you right on the difference between exit and entry price.

The swap margin is basically the deposit you pay to 212. They won't pay you interest on that as they likely don't have a banking licence. So they take your monwy and put it on deposit (they can do much more than this with leverage etc but I'll keep it simple) and they accrue the interest on your money.

That's how they make their money.
 
Anyone know the name of the food manufacturer that specifically makes own brand stuff - it's on the tip of my tongue but can't remember what it's called. It's listed like.
 
Flash Gordon said:
If "the crowd" are not buying Amazon, why has the price consistently gone up?
Click to expand...


The crowd are not buying,pension funds are .Market weighting,like a dog chasing it's tail once it starts.The higher the price goes,the more shares they buy to maintain market weight.The crowd don't know that,their pension fund is not liquid.

Vanguard ,Blackrock,I forget the name of the other one( Investor services? ).They own between 20 and 25% of the shares in Amazon between them.

An index fund will buy an index.If Amazon make up 10% of the index then 10% of your money goes to buying Amazon shares.The price increases and they make up 12% of the index,then 12% of your money goes to buying AMZN .

A small shareholder is always liquid,sell whenever you like.A pension fund is not liquid.Should they own $1trillion of AMZN between them there is no market for them to sell to.They can only hope other pension funds will take a chance on them.

Depending which index fund or ETF you choose,their largest holding will be Amazon shares.Obviously a FTSE 100 fund or ETF will not hold AMZN.
Hoyahamma said:
The crowd are not buying,pension funds are .Market weighting,like a dog chasing it's tail once it starts.The higher the price goes,the more shares they buy to maintain market weight.The crowd don't know that,their pension fund is not liquid.

Vanguard ,Blackrock,I forget the name of the other one( Investor services? ).They own between 20 and 25% of the shares in Amazon between them.

An index fund will buy an index.If Amazon make up 10% of the index then 10% of your money goes to buying Amazon shares.The price increases and they make up 12% of the index,then 12% of your money goes to buying AMZN .

A small shareholder is always liquid,sell whenever you like.A pension fund is not liquid.Should they own $1trillion of AMZN between them there is no market for them to sell to.They can only hope other pension funds will take a chance on them.

Depending which index fund or ETF you choose,their largest holding will be Amazon shares.Obviously a FTSE 100 fund or ETF will not hold AMZN.
Click to expand...


A quick check,basically pension funds own 68% of shares on issue .Work it out by dividing $1.6 trillion ( market cap) by $3200 ( share price now).

68% of $1.6 trillion is how much the pension funds own

I would think he would need to do a share split,perhaps he is doing a Buffett. BRK shares were $7 each roughly when he started,now at around $275K.1965 ish to now.

Bezos might be doing the same,start of the century find out what the price was and they are now $3200.Makes it much easier than adjusting for share splits,rights issues etc .

Bezo
 
Last edited:
Hoyahamma said:
The crowd are not buying,pension funds are .Market weighting,like a dog chasing it's tail once it starts.The higher the price goes,the more shares they buy to maintain market weight.The crowd don't know that,their pension fund is not liquid.

Vanguard ,Blackrock,I forget the name of the other one( Investor services? ).They own between 20 and 25% of the shares in Amazon between them.

An index fund will buy an index.If Amazon make up 10% of the index then 10% of your money goes to buying Amazon shares.The price increases and they make up 12% of the index,then 12% of your money goes to buying AMZN .

A small shareholder is always liquid,sell whenever you like.A pension fund is not liquid.Should they own $1trillion of AMZN between them there is no market for them to sell to.They can only hope other pension funds will take a chance on them.

Depending which index fund or ETF you choose,their largest holding will be Amazon shares.Obviously a FTSE 100 fund or ETF will not hold AMZN.



A quick check,basically pension funds own 68% of shares on issue .Work it out by dividing $1.6 trillion ( market cap) by $3200 ( share price now).

68% of $1.6 trillion is how much the pension funds own

I would think he would need to do a share split,perhaps he is doing a Buffett. BRK shares were $7 each roughly when he started,now at around $275K.1965 ish to now.

Bezos might be doing the same,start of the century find out what the price was and they are now $3200.Makes it much easier than adjusting for share splits,rights issues etc .

Bezo
Click to expand...

Just checked mine & Amazon is actually 3rd behind Microsoft & Apple with about 2.5% of fund.
 
Hoyahamma said:
The crowd are not buying,pension funds are .Market weighting,like a dog chasing it's tail once it starts.The higher the price goes,the more shares they buy to maintain market weight.The crowd don't know that,their pension fund is not liquid.

Vanguard ,Blackrock,I forget the name of the other one( Investor services? ).They own between 20 and 25% of the shares in Amazon between them.

An index fund will buy an index.If Amazon make up 10% of the index then 10% of your money goes to buying Amazon shares.The price increases and they make up 12% of the index,then 12% of your money goes to buying AMZN .

A small shareholder is always liquid,sell whenever you like.A pension fund is not liquid.Should they own $1trillion of AMZN between them there is no market for them to sell to.They can only hope other pension funds will take a chance on them.

Depending which index fund or ETF you choose,their largest holding will be Amazon shares.Obviously a FTSE 100 fund or ETF will not hold AMZN.



A quick check,basically pension funds own 68% of shares on issue .Work it out by dividing $1.6 trillion ( market cap) by $3200 ( share price now).

68% of $1.6 trillion is how much the pension funds own

I would think he would need to do a share split,perhaps he is doing a Buffett. BRK shares were $7 each roughly when he started,now at around $275K.1965 ish to now.

Bezos might be doing the same,start of the century find out what the price was and they are now $3200.Makes it much easier than adjusting for share splits,rights issues etc .

Bezo
Click to expand...


Another quick check,Amazon was around $60 a share at the start of the century,you can now plot them for the rest of your life,or he has a share split.

Buffett ( BRK) has around $96 billion of the $220 billion in major shareholdings tied up in Apple stock.The other ones in no order,Coca cola,AMEX,Wells Fargo,Bank of America and a few more.
 
Hoyahamma said:
The crowd are not buying,pension funds are .Market weighting,like a dog chasing it's tail once it starts.The higher the price goes,the more shares they buy to maintain market weight.The crowd don't know that,their pension fund is not liquid.

Vanguard ,Blackrock,I forget the name of the other one( Investor services? ).They own between 20 and 25% of the shares in Amazon between them.

An index fund will buy an index.If Amazon make up 10% of the index then 10% of your money goes to buying Amazon shares.The price increases and they make up 12% of the index,then 12% of your money goes to buying AMZN .

A small shareholder is always liquid,sell whenever you like.A pension fund is not liquid.Should they own $1trillion of AMZN between them there is no market for them to sell to.They can only hope other pension funds will take a chance on them.

Depending which index fund or ETF you choose,their largest holding will be Amazon shares.Obviously a FTSE 100 fund or ETF will not hold AMZN.



A quick check,basically pension funds own 68% of shares on issue .Work it out by dividing $1.6 trillion ( market cap) by $3200 ( share price now).

68% of $1.6 trillion is how much the pension funds own

I would think he would need to do a share split,perhaps he is doing a Buffett. BRK shares were $7 each roughly when he started,now at around $275K.1965 ish to now.

Bezos might be doing the same,start of the century find out what the price was and they are now $3200.Makes it much easier than adjusting for share splits,rights issues etc .

Bezo
Click to expand...
How are you defining pension funds out of the stockholders?
 

Back
Top