VARguments



sambantam82 said:
Exactly. I just don't understand why people don't see this. They keep banging on about 'clear and obvious' like it's a universally accepted standard. Take the Rodri penalty today. If that is deemed a clear and obvious error it will open the floodgates to every single manager going mental about their penalty claims not being entertained.


Can you explain why the referee running over to look at a screen would benefit the situation in any way when you already have 3 officials who have already seen it 3 times from different angles in the peace and quiet of a studio, wired up directly to the referees ear. Why would you want a referee with 15 players in his face, under pressure from thousands of fans to just then go and do exactly the same? Is it the extra 2 minute delay that appeals to you?
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Because that's where the subjective decisions comes in to it. During the world cup they told the ref if it was worth another look, he then went over. Seems a better system than being told by another ref if he is right or wrong purely on subjective matters like a foul.
 
sambantam82 said:
Exactly. I just don't understand why people don't see this. They keep banging on about 'clear and obvious' like it's a universally accepted standard. Take the Rodri penalty today. If that is deemed a clear and obvious error it will open the floodgates to every single manager going mental about their penalty claims not being entertained.


Can you explain why the referee running over to look at a screen would benefit the situation in any way when you already have 3 officials who have already seen it 3 times from different angles in the peace and quiet of a studio, wired up directly to the referees ear. Why would you want a referee with 15 players in his face, under pressure from thousands of fans to just then go and do exactly the same? Is it the extra 2 minute delay that appeals to you?
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The foul on Rodri should of been a penalty though he makes or less had him in a headlock
 
jsdftm04 said:
Because that's where the subjective decisions comes in to it. During the world cup they told the ref if it was worth another look, he then went over. Seems a better system than being told by another ref if he is right or wrong purely on subjective matters like a foul.
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But why wouldn't you give that subjective decision to someone who can make that decision with a clear head and without the pressure of being in the middle of the action. Surely they would be better equipped to make a decision.
 
sambantam82 said:
But why wouldn't you give that subjective decision to someone who can make that decision with a clear head and without the pressure of being in the middle of the action. Surely they would be better equipped to make a decision.
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Not every ref will think it's a foul. Others are more lenient than others but you know that.
Randy Ostrich said:
It needs to be there for the howler, not to check every little thing. Gary McCallister 5 yards outside the box, that's what VAR could prevent.
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Completely agree, its checking too much.
 
sambantam82 said:
But why wouldn't you give that subjective decision to someone who can make that decision with a clear head and without the pressure of being in the middle of the action. Surely they would be better equipped to make a decision.
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And didn't the refs overturn nearly all the decisions in the World Cup after they were 'advised' to take another look?
 
Love the narratives that people seem to be spinning out here.

Manager: Ref! VAR!
Ref: No, it's not clear and obvious.
Manager: Right you are son. Good point! Carry on!
AC Mack said:
And didn't the refs overturn nearly all the decisions in the World Cup after they were 'advised' to take another look?
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Exactly. On the say so of the studio ref. They probably just went with the advice of the studio official.
jsdftm04 said:
Not every ref will think it's a foul. Others are more lenient than others but you know that.

Completely agree, its checking too much.
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What's it checked so far that it shouldn't have?
 
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sambantam82 said:
Love the narratives that people seem to be spinning out here.

Manager: Ref! VAR!
Ref: No, it's not clear and obvious.
Manager: Right you are son. Good point! Carry on!


Exactly. On the say so of the studio ref. They probably just went with the advice of the studio official.


What's it checked so far that it shouldn't have?
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I think it's ridiculous how pedantic it is on penalties and I think offsides should only be chalked off if its clear, I accept the accepted amount is an issue but sterling's last week was literally a layer of skin offside if that.
 
jsdftm04 said:
I think it's ridiculous how pedantic it is on penalties and I think offsides should only be chalked off if its clear, I accept the accepted amount is an issue but sterling's last week was literally a layer of skin offside if that.
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They have to set a clear parameter otherwise people will start churning out examples from previous weeks where players were 'more' offside and didn't get chalked off. You either have a strict line and have consistency or you have leniency and zero consistency. I can't recall any Premier league penalties given on var but I could be wrong.
 
sambantam82 said:
They have to set a clear parameter otherwise people will start churning out examples from previous weeks where players were 'more' offside and didn't get chalked off. You either have a strict line and have consistency or you have leniency and zero consistency. I can't recall any Premier league penalties given on var but I could be wrong.
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I meant the taking of penalties, every one that's missed ends up being retaken.
 
jsdftm04 said:
I meant the taking of penalties, every one that's missed ends up being retaken.
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Same principle as offsides. Officials can't risk a situation where they allow some and don't others. You're either encroaching or your not. Simple solution, don't encroach, everyone knows the laws. What should the referees do? Just tell players, it's fine, run into the box before the kicks taken, just don't make it blatant. It is not workable.
 
Daffy said:
Spoiling the game
It’s a no from me
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Its the goal celebration issue that's the killer. Refs were doing a decent job. It's the ridiculous scrutiny and the nonsense that the managers churned out week in week out that have brought us here.
People banging on about 'clear and obvious' would you have allowed the Brighton goal disallowed for offside?
 
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We'll get used to it and it's use will become smoother over time. It's not helping that it seems like too many relatively minor matters are being referred to it, they would have been better starting with a much narrower range and widening out when it was running well and accepted. Change was needed as too many games were swinging on clearly wrong decisions (though I note there is now some glowing praise for past refs amongst the VAR haters), though I still think better use of the four officials as a team instead of just the ref with an admin assistant and often just two offside monitors would have been helpful before turning to VAR, now it doesn't matter as VAR is the immediate fallback but that breaks play more often than it should need to.
 
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Surely it is the rules that are wrong if there is a problem.

If VAR is now confirming that a lot of people are breaking the rules then simplify the laws of the game if you don't want people getting caught out
 
sambantam82 said:
Its the goal celebration issue that's the killer. Refs were doing a decent job. It's the ridiculous scrutiny and the nonsense that the managers churned out week in week out that have brought us here.
People banging on about 'clear and obvious' would you have allowed the Brighton goal disallowed for offside?
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That disallowed goal for City was a disgrace
For me that’s why it should be scrapped
 

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