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VARguments

Absolute joke.
No way that was clear and obvious. His foot is a few inches ahead of the defenders shoulder at the most on the freeze frame, which with his momentum could quite easily have occurred after contact is made with the ball by his team mate.
 

Speedy1976 said:
Absolute joke.
No way that was clear and obvious. His foot is a few inches ahead of the defenders shoulder at the most on the freeze frame, which with his momentum could quite easily have occurred after contact is made with the ball by his team mate.
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'Clear and obvious' doesn't apply to offsides as it's an objective decision.
 
MackemX said:
We've had people on here moaning like fuck when an offside decision is given against as it's shown the defender's boot lace was actually playing our attacker onside, yet now VAR could potentially correct those decisions and people will still moan like fuck :lol:
.
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people keep repeating this, yet i've seen no evidence of it being true. we were arguably robbed against Luton last week, yet i've seen, read or heard not one suggestion from sunderland fans that it VAR should be in place. its part of football. yes we like to complain about refs, yes refs get decisions wrong, yes sometimes they feel like they don't balance out over a season - but thats part of it. sitting talking about decisions, which a lot of them after 100 replays from 100 angles still divide opinion. so yes, i will still abuse referees for their bad decisions, and feel robbed sometimes, but i'd rather that than VAR.

it will never be as effective as people like to make out, even after years of practice, its never going to be seamless, its always going to be subjective and people are always going to disagree with some of the decisions it helps to make. so we are essentially taking away the very essence of going to and playing football- the spontaneity and thrill of goals - whilst gaining very very little.

its a load of shite, aimed at making the game more american, more marketable, more like theatre, more staged like wrestling, in an attempt to add drama for TV viewers who have the concentration span and intellect of goldfish. the overall intention clearly is to make more money out of the game.
 
stephen cartwright said:
Because English officials are utterly clueless. That’s the problem
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Officials aren't to blame if its a fanny hair offside. In the whole they do a very good job. I'm not a fan of VAR as a match going fan. TV audiences will lap it up

tunstallhill said:
people keep repeating this, yet i've seen no evidence of it being true. we were arguably robbed against Luton last week, yet i've seen, read or heard not one suggestion from sunderland fans that it VAR should be in place. its part of football. yes we like to complain about refs, yes refs get decisions wrong, yes sometimes they feel like they don't balance out over a season - but thats part of it. sitting talking about decisions, which a lot of them after 100 replays from 100 angles still divide opinion. so yes, i will still abuse referees for their bad decisions, and feel robbed sometimes, but i'd rather that than VAR.

it will never be as effective as people like to make out, even after years of practice, its never going to be seamless, its always going to be subjective and people are always going to disagree with some of the decisions it helps to make. so we are essentially taking away the very essence of going to and playing football- the spontaneity and thrill of goals - whilst gaining very very little.

its a load of shite, aimed at making the game more american, more marketable, more like theatre, more staged like wrestling, in an attempt to add drama for TV viewers who have the concentration span and intellect of goldfish. the overall intention clearly is to make more money out of the game.
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Great Post
 
bernardbresslaw said:
n
Gave the goal - Derby fans go crackas, then they take about a minute to look at VAR and say he was a fanny hair offside so no goal. How are you going to perfect that?
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You'll never perfect aspects of the game where judgement comes into question. Whether a ball crossed the line can be ascertained with certainty but calling penalties for e.g. pushing in the box and other fouls is overlaid by personal opinion and judgement. Nevertheless, the probability of achieving more satisfaction as the result of more accurate decisions will greatly improve overall. We'll have to live with it but cricket, rugby and other sports are buying into technology to help referees and we would have been happy to have VAR, would we not, last week when we played Luton and had a man sent off for an undeserved penalty decision?
 
bagpiperay said:
You'll never perfect aspects of the game where judgement comes into question. Whether a ball crossed the line can be ascertained with certainty but calling penalties for e.g. pushing in the box and other fouls is overlaid by personal opinion and judgement. Nevertheless, the probability of achieving more satisfaction as the result of more accurate decisions will greatly improve overall. We'll have to live with it but cricket, rugby and other sports are buying into technology to help referees and we would have been happy to have VAR, would we not, last week when we played Luton and had a man sent off for an undeserved penalty decision?
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No. Would rather draw the game than have that shite
 
Dean Saunders comments sum up my feelings. Going to the match is a febrile, emotive experience, highs, lows & a massive blast when we score. I don't want a considered 2 minute delay to see if it's valid or not. Tunstalls right, it's for TV, not folk that turn up in the cold & rain. Most of the pundits advocate it cos it's their living.

Percentages bandied about before the last WC showed that VAR increased the "right" decisions (subjective) from 92% to 94%. So all that delay, protest from players making little telly gestures to the ref is for 2% more!

Also FWIW, VAR would've probably disallowed Ji's goal. Personally I never want to lose that utter delight in a moment of ecstatic football.

Sanitise all the decisions for the prawn sandwich brigade, leave proper football with it's mistakes, arguments, ranting managers/fans for those of us that turn up to experience pain & delight in equal measures
 
c032745y said:
Dean Saunders comments sum up my feelings. Going to the match is a febrile, emotive experience, highs, lows & a massive blast when we score. I don't want a considered 2 minute delay to see if it's valid or not. Tunstalls right, it's for TV, not folk that turn up in the cold & rain. Most of the pundits advocate it cos it's their living.

Percentages bandied about before the last WC showed that VAR increased the "right" decisions (subjective) from 92% to 94%. So all that delay, protest from players making little telly gestures to the ref is for 2% more!

Also FWIW, VAR would've probably disallowed Ji's goal. Personally I never want to lose that utter delight in a moment of ecstatic football.

Sanitise all the decisions for the prawn sandwich brigade, leave proper football with it's mistakes, arguments, ranting managers/fans for those of us that turn up to experience pain & delight in equal measures
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That sounds commendable except if it was your team which was unfairly judged. Can you imagine losing to an incorrect decision in a Championship play-off final which would bring untold wealth to the successful team via promotion to the Premiership? It to lose in the World Cup to a cheat’s ‘hand of God’ hand ball?
We cannot go back to the old days otherwise we would still play on muddy fields, use lace-up balls and the rest of it. VAR will improve the game and will be accepted more readily with greater refinement of the technology and the time it takes to judge controversial decisions.
 
While far from perfect,it surely cannot be argued that with it we would get more fairer decisions than without it, a lot more imo than the 2% quoted in the last post?

It also surely can’t be argued with what we watch either at the ground or on the telly each week that refs need help?

Diving for example for pens by players would be much easier to spot and VAR will get better as it as time goes on.

What is clear in my mind without a shadow of a doubt is without it games that could cost clubs millions,will be decided by a person who clearly has not got the tools to do the job!

bagpiperay said:
That sounds commendable except if it was your team which was unfairly judged. Can you imagine losing to an incorrect decision in a Championship play-off final which would bring untold wealth to the successful team via promotion to the Premiership? It to lose in the World Cup to a cheat’s ‘hand of God’ hand ball?
We cannot go back to the old days otherwise we would still play on muddy fields, use lace-up balls and the rest of it. VAR will improve the game and will be accepted more readily with greater refinement of the technology and the time it takes to judge controversial decisions.
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Correct! It’s called progress!
 
bagpiperay said:
That sounds commendable except if it was your team which was unfairly judged. Can you imagine losing to an incorrect decision in a Championship play-off final which would bring untold wealth to the successful team via promotion to the Premiership? It to lose in the World Cup to a cheat’s ‘hand of God’ hand ball?
We cannot go back to the old days otherwise we would still play on muddy fields, use lace-up balls and the rest of it. VAR will improve the game and will be accepted more readily with greater refinement of the technology and the time it takes to judge controversial decisions.
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We got knocked out in a play off semi-final for that very reason. We got over it.

I can't understand how any match attending football fan could support this bollocks tbh.
 
bagpiperay said:
You'll never perfect aspects of the game where judgement comes into question. Whether a ball crossed the line can be ascertained with certainty but calling penalties for e.g. pushing in the box and other fouls is overlaid by personal opinion and judgement. Nevertheless, the probability of achieving more satisfaction as the result of more accurate decisions will greatly improve overall. We'll have to live with it but cricket, rugby and other sports are buying into technology to help referees and we would have been happy to have VAR, would we not, last week when we played Luton and had a man sent off for an undeserved penalty decision?
Click to expand...
Not if it means I've got to rein in my emotions when we've "scored". It's too high a price to pay.

c032745y said:
Dean Saunders comments sum up my feelings. Going to the match is a febrile, emotive experience, highs, lows & a massive blast when we score. I don't want a considered 2 minute delay to see if it's valid or not. Tunstalls right, it's for TV, not folk that turn up in the cold & rain. Most of the pundits advocate it cos it's their living.

Percentages bandied about before the last WC showed that VAR increased the "right" decisions (subjective) from 92% to 94%. So all that delay, protest from players making little telly gestures to the ref is for 2% more!

Also FWIW, VAR would've probably disallowed Ji's goal. Personally I never want to lose that utter delight in a moment of ecstatic football.

Sanitise all the decisions for the prawn sandwich brigade, leave proper football with it's mistakes, arguments, ranting managers/fans for those of us that turn up to experience pain & delight in equal measures
Click to expand...
Great post.
I would have just said "fuck the Sky boys ".
 
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bernardbresslaw said:
Not if it means I've got to rein in my emotions when we've "scored". It's too high a price to pay.
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Tbf mate not heard many rugby fans complaining that it stopped them enjoying a try because of the delay.

Technology is happening across a number of sports yet in one of the richest its not, that does not seem right or fair
 
Voice of fair play said:
While far from perfect,it surely cannot be argued that with it we would get more fairer decisions than without it, a lot more imo than the 2% quoted in the last post?

It also surely can’t be argued with what we watch either at the ground or on the telly each week that refs need help?

Diving for example for pens by players would be much easier to spot and VAR will get better as it as time goes on.

What is clear in my mind without a shadow of a doubt is without it games that could cost clubs millions,will be decided by a person who clearly has not got the tools to do the job!



Correct! It’s called progress!
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This is a game man. Has monopoly changed over the years, have they introduced VAR? Nope.
 
James said:
Shouldn't have been used there. That is exactly the sort of example people talk about when they say it'll kill the game.
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It took quite a while to make the call by then everyone was geared up for kick off. If it's that close a call and takes that long it shouldn't be used in that scenario. Only when it's clear like Joselu.
At half time when they were looking at it you could see that Waghorns toe was about 1cm over the line but then you could see that a Saints defenders shoulder was in line. Ridiculous. It will ruin the game.
 
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