VAR

The principle is flawed because you still have humans making the calls on a game with some subjective laws
This is a good point.

In other sports technology is used in two ways.

1. Overturning decisions where there is an objective answer.
2. To give a different angle on something that is difficult to see for the ref.

1 decisions are usually in the hand of the players - they can review something, like in cricket or American football.
2 decisions are usually in the hand of the ref - like rugby tries, or

VAR has some that are like 1 - offsides. That's kind of fine, it'll get quicker and is just life. The technology will get better on this where it'll be almost as instant as goal-line tech. Maybe they should hold of until it does, but that's a different debate.

VAR has - or used to, but they never seem to do it like this now - some 2s, too - where the ref goes into the booth to take a look. That's kind of fine too imo.

But what is absolutely bullshit, is checking every goal when the ref doesn't think it needs to happen - or VAR intervening when neither the ref or players have asked for it. That's bullshit and they should scrap it.
 

sambantam82

Goalkeeper
But what is absolutely bullshit, is checking every goal when the ref doesn't think it needs to happen - or VAR intervening when neither the ref or players have asked for it. That's bullshit and they should scrap it.
This is typical of the type of complaints VAR is getting. It sounds sensible and reasoned but you need to think through what would actually occur in practise.

Let's take the handball as an example. By your logic, next week we have a goal ruled out for handball, in very similar circumstances to Laporte although. The referee suspects there may have been a handball and VAR confirms it.

The week after there is a similar but slightly more subtle handball. The ref doesn't see it and neither do the players. As a result VAR leave it alone.

Later that day when SSN show the ball glancing the goal scorers hand, what do you think the reaction will be? What about the handball last week!? Total meltdown - team were robbed, where's the consistency? Referee will be slaughtered. People will slaughter the officials and there will be a clamour for a rematch and/or a reallocation of points.

Personally, my prediction is that on field decisions on interpretative decisions will very rarely be overturned. It will mainly be for offsides and attacking handball where no interpretation is necessary.
 

marley's ghost

Midfield
Personally, my prediction is that on field decisions on interpretative decisions will very rarely be overturned. It will mainly be for offsides and attacking handball where no interpretation is necessary.
[/QUOTE]

the biggest disputes have been the attacking handballs as the rule needs changing
 
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This is typical of the type of complaints VAR is getting. It sounds sensible and reasoned but you need to think through what would actually occur in practise.

Let's take the handball as an example. By your logic, next week we have a goal ruled out for handball, in very similar circumstances to Laporte although. The referee suspects there may have been a handball and VAR confirms it.

The week after there is a similar but slightly more subtle handball. The ref doesn't see it and neither do the players. As a result VAR leave it alone.

Later that day when SSN show the ball glancing the goal scorers hand, what do you think the reaction will be? What about the handball last week!? Total meltdown - team were robbed, where's the consistency? Referee will be slaughtered. People will slaughter the officials and there will be a clamour for a rematch and/or a reallocation of points.

Personally, my prediction is that on field decisions on interpretative decisions will very rarely be overturned. It will mainly be for offsides and attacking handball where no interpretation is necessary.
This is indicative of the problem with VAR actually. All other sports that have successfully implemented technology-assisted adjudicating have quite explicitly not been aiming for perfection. There are still incorrect lbw decisions in cricket, for example, even though that one can pretty much be decided objectively.

Bad decisions are part of the game, part of all games and technology doesn't change that. Hasn't in rugby, hasn't in cricket, hasn't in American Football, hasn't in tennis. So the scenario you sketch out not only will happen, it should happen - and people will have to put up with it, as they have for years.

Besides, the handball issue isn't technically about VAR, it's about the handball law.
 

sambantam82

Goalkeeper
This is indicative of the problem with VAR actually. All other sports that have successfully implemented technology-assisted adjudicating have quite explicitly not been aiming for perfection. There are still incorrect lbw decisions in cricket, for example, even though that one can pretty much be decided objectively.

Bad decisions are part of the game, part of all games and technology doesn't change that. Hasn't in rugby, hasn't in cricket, hasn't in American Football, hasn't in tennis. So the scenario you sketch out not only will happen, it should happen - and people will have to put up with it, as they have for years.

Besides, the handball issue isn't technically about VAR, it's about the handball law.
I think the problem arises with the mentality of football fans, managers and media. Before VAR the footballing public struggled to deal with a vital reality in football. The reality being a) most laws are interpretative in football and b) some poor sod has to make a decision. Managers on the receiving end of a 50/50 decision going against them would forever berate and crucify officials for their decision. The officiating bodies have buckled and relented to VAR and started to make rules that are non interpretative to satisfy demands for 'consistency'. By and large in other sports the public have accepted the reality that the man in the middle has to make a decision and you just get on with it, even when it doesn't go your way.

The referees did do an incredible job. At the top level you'd be lucky to name more than a handful of decisions each season that we're universally condemned.

Now we have VAR there is even more demand for consistency. A lot of the complaints about the way VAR is being used on here are symptomatic of fans thinking they are talking sense but a lot of it falls down when you think it through in terms of how these suggestions play out in practise. The one that makes me tear my hair out is when people say 'it should only be used for clear and obvious'. Sounds sensible in theory but it would lead to total chaos. It would be a matter of weeks before you were getting managers crying about how their decision that wasn't reversed was more 'clear and obvious' than the one 3 weeks ago. Somebody has to make a decision about what constitutes 'clear and obvious' and that's why they are avoiding VAR on any interpretative decisions, like whether or not a foul has taken place, like Rodri at the weekend.

Some fans might say 'well they need to make sure the laws are applied consistently'. The problem is - you can't! Take a defensive handball for example. You can talk about silhouettes and natural positions and ball to hand etc as much as you like - you will never have 2 handball that are identical and you can't expect referees to mentally spool through every previous decision that season to attempt to get close to consistency. I wouldn't be surprised if they buckle again under the demands from idiotic fans for consistency, throw the towel in and say 'fine! If it hits your arm it's a handball'. The law would get rightly criticised.

As above though, the football World has to accept, you can either have laws that fit the game but require interpretation and inconsistency, or laws that are stupid but easy to apply consistently.

Your reference to other sports is useful in that an appeals system would solve a lot of problems. Put the onus for appeal on the managers.

The biggest problem overall is the celebration issue. However I think the handball incidents will be very rare and the officials have been freakishly unlucky having had 2 to deal with in the first weeks of the prem season. From now on I think most disallowed goals will be marginal handball and any fan worth their salt will know when there is a suspicion of offside anyway.
 

hudson88

Striker
Didn't ask you tit.
My god how hard is it? If Hudson shows his mates cash out and not random ones I'll square up until he stops lying fuck off
I’ve shown it, but then you already know that.

Deciding instead to act clever on the internet and go back on a £20 donation to a cancer charity.
 

AndyC73

Midfield
Wolves scored an absolute blinder against Man U, which was almost ruled out because somebody's shoulder was possibly 1 cm past the ball when played. Reckon they're still not sure..

Nowhere near possible to call it in realtime, a matter of millimetres. Yet almost happened. Risks ruining the game.
 

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