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Deleted member 6694
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When did it make a mistake this last weekend
From the rules, all the decisions were made correctly and if anything it's the rules that are mainly the cause of the problem!
VAR
- Thread starter Duggins81
- Start date
From the rules, all the decisions were made correctly and if anything it's the rules that are mainly the cause of the problem!
Marty Moose
Striker
It's f***ing shit as is the absolutely ludicrous handball rule changes. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and dickin about with what should be a simple f***ing game.
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Deleted member 6694
Guest
Aye he says it from 11:43 here (you need to watch on youtube). In time maybe people will know that offside is a yes or now and not part of the clear and obvious.
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Voice of fair play
Striker
Exactly, it can’t be any other way for offside it’s a bit like a run out in cricket you either in your crease or out.
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Deleted member 6694
Guest
Coming back to this, watch the video from 13:30 to get an explanation by Collina. You seem to think encroachment is a player in the box when the kick is taken. It isn't as I think it's only an offence if they then get involved in play somehow. Even this is a grey area as what if Mahrez who hadn't encroached got to the ball 1st but Rice who had encroached got close to Mahrez but not enough to tackle him but enough to put him off his shot?
No doubt this no so well known rule will cause a big debate when it's seen that a keeper saves a penna but is off his line but the officials on the pitch missed it!
Or what I think will happen, given the fuckups so far, is that VAR will still notify the ref that he's missed the keeper being off the line so it will be retaken causing even more shit!:EDIT:
A quick google does confirm they will use VAR for the keepers but only for significant movement off the line! What the fuck man? How can they say that as that just leaves it open to interpretation as what is classed as significant? Is 6 inches significant, is 7 inches? What about 6.1 inches?
Why can't it be a simple yes or no like being on the line or not. Is this a softly softly approach to the rule change because if it is then they really are trying their best to fuck it up! 
How will VAR affect the Premier League?
The Premier League will use VAR for the first time this season, but how does England's top flight intend to integrate it successfully?
www.bbc.co.uk
However, the Premier League will not be enforcing this in the same way for the coming season, instead only relying on VAR if the on-field officials fail to spot:
- a significant movement by the keeper off their line
- an encroachment by other players that has a direct impact on the outcome of the kick
- if the penalty taker makes a double-touch or feigns at the point of striking the ball
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Voice of fair play
Striker
I think the bottom line is mate we are asking refs to use the same tools they had over a 100 years ago,that does not happen in any other industry never mind a multi billionaire industry, yeah it was always going to happen I agree
tunstallhill
Striker
introducing technology doesn't always equal progress.
Voice of fair play
Striker
Well think that’s entirely a matter of opinion.
Leeds Mackem Reborn
Midfield
Agreed. I’ve done the rant at the ref in the heat of the moment like the next man but usually see sense when I’ve calmed down. But it’s that spirit of accepting the rough with the smooth ill miss
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Deleted member 6694
Guest
The problem is that now an incorrect decision can cost a club millions. Sadly it's not about the matchday fans any more and this is another step further away from that. Look at Cardiff last season when Chelsea equalised in the 84th minute yet it was a clear offside decision that was missed and then Chelsea scored again to win it. It could have potentially cost Cardiff the win and 3 points given how late it was in the game. They ended up going by 2 points at the end of the season! They may never get back up for decades yet if they'd stayed up they may well have adpapted to the Premier League and stayed there, who knows?
I'm not saying that they would have stayed up but the fact is they were hard done by simply because 2 people didn't see the offside. Should a game that is worth millions (even more if you include betting etc) really come down to whether 2 officials on the pitch miss something yet everyone else can see on a replay?
samaistonsrightfoot
Striker
When did it make a mistake this last weekend
I've already said a few times on here.
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Deleted member 6694
Guest
In this thread but if not where?
In this thread I can see one, the Sterling offside. I think Sterling being offside is simply down to when the ball is leaving the player (like it has always been used by TV etc before VAR). It's just the rule isn't too clear. The fact he was onside by an even smaller margin for his 2nd goal shows it's going to be close sometimes but far closer and more accurate than any officials could ever be.
Here's a reminder of all the incidents (I don't even know about them all) but only a few were overturned.
2 decisions overturned in the West Ham v Man City, Sterling offside and retaken penna. The other overturned decision was to overule Dedonker's goal for Wolves v Leicester
VAR's Premier League debut - did it work?
As VAR plays a part in the top flight for the first time in England, did it run smoothly and, crucially, did it get the important decisions right?
www.bbc.co.uk
samaistonsrightfoot
Striker
In this thread but if not where?so I can explain why you're wrong
In this thread I can see one, the Sterling offside. I think Sterling being offside is simply down to when the ball is leaving the player (like it has always been used by TV etc before VAR). It's just the rule isn't too clear. The fact he was onside by an even smaller margin for his 2nd goal shows it's going to be close sometimes but far closer and more accurate than any officials could ever be.
Here's a reminder of all the incidents (I don't even know about them all) but only a few were overturned.
2 decisions overturned in the West Ham v Man City, Sterling offside and retaken penna. The other overturned decision was to overule Dedonker's goal for Wolves v Leicester
VAR's Premier League debut - did it work?
As VAR plays a part in the top flight for the first time in England, did it run smoothly and, crucially, did it get the important decisions right?
I've posted the offside rules which aren't being adhered to for VAR.
You've just confirmed that your perception is when the ball leaves the players foot because this is what tv shows do. That isn't the rules. That's a TV show doing what they want. They've never shown the freeze frames like that so you we don't even know whether it is as the ball leaves in those examples. The human eye simply isn't capable determining those frame rates. It's literally how video works.
You can't blame the rules because VAR have decided to do what they want regardless.
They may well need to change the rules but they can't just do owt they want in the meantime.
Bringing in VAR should be eradicating all human errors beyond reasonable doubt. Offsides in particular have no grey area with video. They are either on or offside. VAR is creating a grey area triggered by where they stop the video. This could be different every time.
In the case of Sterling they stopped it on the 5th frame his (the player making the pass) foot was on the ball. The laws of the game state specifically the first point of contact is the decisive touch. The first frame the ball is played Sterling is onside (so was Jesus). VAR used the 5th frame (the split second he was offside while the ball was still touching the players foot). They didn't use the 6th frame where the ball was still in the players foot (7th being the first frame of no contact).
Under normal conditions a human cant see 5 frames in isolation and the first contact with the ball is also the last so this issue has never arose. Of course it does now with the technology so they either they need to change to rules to suit VAR or they need to use VAR within the laws of the game. I don't see why the rules of the game should be changed to suit a technology only there to regulate it, specifically when it can clearly identify the first touch, as the laws state, as easily as it can identify the frame before the last touch.
TravellingMackem
Winger
If you watch the slo-mo replays, it hits his forearm just below the onside of his elbow as this is how it actually ends bouncing back up to his head. The replay from 1:54 and the 2nd angle right after shows this if you slow it down further to 0.25 speed
Aguero wasn't interefering at all. He didn't play or challenge the ball, he wasn't blocking anyone's vision or breaking any of the other rules regarding interferance.
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It's a bit messy but it all depends on what the penna taker, keeper, players outside the box do and also whether a goal is scored or not. As you can see below in the rules by the last rule if both the penna taker and keeper commit offence then it depends on if a goal is scored as to what happens next. If a goal that was scored then ends up being a free kick to defending team and the attacking team lose out but if the penna is missed then the defending team lose out and it's retaken! It's only the fact Rice hoofed the ball clear that the encroachment offence was then commited. If Mahrez who was behind him had also encroached but then got to the ball before Rice then Mahrez would have been pulled up.
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Aye VAR has its negatives but it isn't helped when people don't fully understand the rules, though this is understandable at the moment, or think they see things that actually didn't happen upon closer review. In time this will change and the debatable things like this won't even be debatable as it's all within the rules.
Aguero is sat on the shoulder of the defender who needs to cover sterling, and he obstructs that defender as he turns to tackle sterling. How is that NOT interfering?
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Deleted member 6694
Guest
Because he's not obstructing the defender at all as seen here from 1:35?
If anything it looks like the defender pushes Aguero with both arms just before.OK, I got the touch thing wrong as I just presumed that's how they did it as I thought it was the last touch. Where did you see these 5 frame that you are talking about that makes you think Sterling is onside when Da Silva is touching the ball? It's the briefest of touches by Da Silva as it's over 2 frames from what I've seen. The 1st frame Da Silva touches the ball is shown in this gif (albeit shitty quality) below with THIS FRAME on it. The frames before are slowed down to show the ball clearly hasn't yet been touched. In the frame Da Silva first touches the ball it looks like Sterling is offside yet you are saying he's onside?
You can see it's the same frame as the VAR one used by looking at the #4 West Ham defender's left foot which is angled. The frame before Da Silva even touches the ball, the defender's foot is flat on the floor, the frame Da Silva touches the ball his heel is lifted and the frame after (while Da Silva is still completing the pass) it's off the floor so VAR did use the right frame, the one where the defender's heel is lifted.
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In the image below in the top left and top right are the 2 frames from the different angles before Da Silva touches the ball. In the top left it looks as if Da Silva is touching the ball but he's not. It's the frame where the #4 West Ham defender's foot is flat on the floor. The next frame is the VAR frame (the bottom of the image) is where he has lifted his heel up.
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I've quoted this bit again as it's clear in the image above that Jesus was over a yard offside!
The angle of the view along the 18 yard line is also misleading as it will make Sterling look further back than he is, just in the same way he looks offside in the right of the image of the frame before the touch. The only way to know for sure is if VAR drew the lines on the frame before but they obviously didn't as the ball hadn't yet been touched by Da Silva. They drew the lines on the next frame which showed Sterling was offside, albeit by inches, so how are VAR not adhering to the rules?
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samaistonsrightfoot
Striker
Because he's not obstructing the defender at all as seen here from 1:35?
OK, I got the touch thing wrong as I just presumed that's how they did it as I thought it was the last touch. Where did you see these 5 frame that you are talking about that makes you think Sterling is onside when Da Silva is touching the ball? It's the briefest of touches by Da Silva as it's over 2 frames from what I've seen. The 1st frame Da Silva touches the ball is shown in this gif (albeit shitty quality) below with THIS FRAME on it. The frames before are slowed down to show the ball clearly hasn't yet been touched. In the frame Da Silva first touches the ball it looks like Sterling is offside yet you are saying he's onside?
You can see it's the same frame as the VAR one used by looking at the #4 West Ham defender's left foot which is angled. The frame before Da Silva even touches the ball, the defender's foot is flat on the floor, the frame Da Silva touches the ball his heel is lifted and the frame after (while Da Silva is still completing the pass) it's off the floor so VAR did use the right frame, the one where the defender's heel is lifted.
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In the image below in the top left and top right are the 2 frames from the different angles before Da Silva touches the ball. In the top left it looks as if Da Silva is touching the ball but he's not. It's the frame where the #4 West Ham defender's foot is flat on the floor. The next frame is the VAR frame (the bottom of the image) is where he has lifted his heel up.
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I've quoted this bit again as it's clear in the image above that Jesus was over a yard offside!
The angle of the view along the 18 yard line is also misleading as it will make Sterling look further back than he is, just in the same way he looks offside in the right of the image of the frame before the touch. The only way to know for sure is if VAR drew the lines on the frame before but they obviously didn't as the ball hadn't yet been touched by Da Silva. They drew the lines on the next frame which showed Sterling was offside, albeit by inches, so how are VAR not adhering to the rules?
Was on Bein. The angle was from the other side of the pitch in line with the players. Not from the goalmouth you have put on. They kept going backwards and forwards over the frames over and over because Gray was furious about it. Those meant nowt as they are one frame.
The rules are the first touch of the ball so the first frame. Not the 5th.
I'm presuming the clip you've used is a different frame rate.
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Leeds Mackem Reborn
Midfield
I understand your point. It’s a good Rgument for VAR and I know I’m taking a view more rooted in tradition and just accepting fate. Ultimately I suppose I’m thinking of the fan experience and the game staying the way it’s always been than the business view. I know VAR makes it ‘right’ more of the time and probably avoids injustices but it’s the spirit of the game that suffers
Bishop Mackem
Striker
Sterling wasn’t even offside for the first goal like
Voice of fair play
Striker
Yep exactly, especially when it’s been proven time and time again that just the human eye is not enough and simliar mistakes will keep happening.
Mackemjmc
Winger
What happens in reverse then? ie accidental handball by a defender-is that now a penalty??
