UK electricity generation

Paddy O'Dors said:
Cheaper to pay to switch them off. Electricity doesn't "store" very well either.
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I think storage is the massive thing we need to crack to make renewables work really well.

Demand is variable and also supply from renewables is variable, but we are obviously getting closer to where the average available from renewables+nuclear is sufficient to meet our average demand.

I know we have a few pumped-hydro stations where water is pumped up to a reservoir using surplus power and released when we don't have enough power but we need something on a much bigger scale. It doesn't need to be efficient storage as we are using surplus "free" energy to store it, but we do need to be able to store vast amounts of energy.
 


Roger said:
I think storage is the massive thing we need to crack to make renewables work really well.

Demand is variable and also supply from renewables is variable, but we are obviously getting closer to where the average available from renewables+nuclear is sufficient to meet our average demand.

I know we have a few pumped-hydro stations where water is pumped up to a reservoir using surplus power and released when we don't have enough power but we need something on a much bigger scale. It doesn't need to be efficient storage as we are using surplus "free" energy to store it, but we do need to be able to store vast amounts of energy.
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The answer lies in production of ammonia. Use renewable power to manufacture or later crack ammonia. As it’s liquid at room temp, existing pipelines can be used to transport it and there is also existing storage infrastructure. We just then need to look to move to hydrogen as a primary fuel source with water as the by product.
 
Kevj said:
The answer lies in production of ammonia. Use renewable power to manufacture or later crack ammonia. As it’s liquid at room temp, existing pipelines can be used to transport it and there is also existing storage infrastructure. We just then need to look to move to hydrogen as a primary fuel source with water as the by product.
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My bet is on flywheels...
 
joemcdokes said:
I always wondered why they are switched off, pretty obvious when you think about it maybes instead of switching them off they could use the money to create huge battery storage plants.
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Good idea but battery storage isn’t the best way to store excess electricity. The answer is using the extra electricity to convert water to hydrogen gas via electrolysis. That way you can store lots of “energy” and when need to release it use gas turbines to change it back to electrical energy.

entirely clean with pure oxygen as the byproduct of the electrolysis
 
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citybythesea said:
Good idea but battery storage isn’t the best way to store excess electricity. The answer is using the extra electricity to convert water to hydrogen gas via electrolysis. That way you can store lots of “energy” and when need to release it use gas turbines to change it back to electrical energy.

entirely clean with pure oxygen as the byproduct of the electrolysis
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And huge energy loss in the phases. Plus very complex and costly process - this is why hydrogen cars will never compete against EV's
 
citybythesea said:
Good idea but battery storage isn’t the best way to store excess electricity. The answer is using the extra electricity to convert water to hydrogen gas via electrolysis. That way you can store lots of “energy” and when need to release it use gas turbines to change it back to electrical energy.

entirely clean with pure oxygen as the byproduct of the electrolysis
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And very explosive too.
 
AndyGray1985 said:
My bet is on flywheels...
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There is momentum gathering within the energy sector for the use of ammonia in this way.

"Green" ammonia is the key to meeting the twin challenges of the 21st century. | Sustainable Energy | Siemens United Kingdom

Lots of other articles available but Siemens do carry some weight as a current market leader.

And in terms of future infrastructure Capex, the existing oil pipeline networks would need minimal adaptation, so a secondary win.
 
Kevj said:
There is momentum gathering within the energy sector for the use of ammonia in this way.

"Green" ammonia is the key to meeting the twin challenges of the 21st century. | Sustainable Energy | Siemens United Kingdom

Lots of other articles available but Siemens do carry some weight as a current market leader.

And in terms of future infrastructure Capex, the existing oil pipeline networks would need minimal adaptation, so a secondary win.
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Will give that a read, but flywheels can be integrated in the construction of the turbine and be used to balance the grid as well. No running costs and maintenance free for 20+ years. Larger units could be used in other parts of the grid or with solar parks. Still lots of material and other tech to be solved there as well, of course :)
 
citybythesea said:
So is the storage of natural gas which we routinely do in towns and cities up and down the country. Plus if we moved to electricity we could move away from natural gas in homes and mitigate the risk to individual houses exploding
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With these wind turbines then, how long do they last and what sort of maintenance do they need. Bearing changes? Blades replacing?
 
AndyGray1985 said:
And huge energy loss in the phases. Plus very complex and costly process - this is why hydrogen cars will never compete against EV's
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im not suggesting hydrogen as the final energy source, more so as an intermediate energy to store before moving it back to electrical energy.
electroylsis is about 70-80% efficient, gas turbines are around 50% efficient
 
citybythesea said:
So is the storage of natural gas which we routinely do in towns and cities up and down the country. Plus if we moved to electricity we could move away from natural gas in homes and mitigate the risk to individual houses exploding
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Most gas storage facilities (the Victorian metal things) in the UK are now redundant. In fact they all might be now. The ones left standing are listed buildings.
 
citybythesea said:
im not suggesting hydrogen as the final energy source, more so as an intermediate energy to store before moving it back to electrical energy.
electroylsis is about 70-80% efficient, gas turbines are around 50% efficient
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But the best flywheels lose 1% per day and are much less complex or expensive... And can be deployed in even a private home or on a drilling ship
 
citybythesea said:
Good idea but battery storage isn’t the best way to store excess electricity. The answer is using the extra electricity to convert water to hydrogen gas via electrolysis. That way you can store lots of “energy” and when need to release it use gas turbines to change it back to electrical energy.

entirely clean with pure oxygen as the byproduct of the electrolysis
Click to expand...

In theory could you produce the hydrogen to use in hydrogen powered cars?
 

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