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The Pep myth


bowers2 said:
The innovative managers are total myths.
Pep May have new dangled ideas with a huge disposal of cash to buy the very best players to experiment with.
If we are going to go down this route is Tony pulis the mastermind of the king throw? Managers from the 80s defending deep or the low block as it’s called today. Inverted full backs his invention? When you are battering teams with the very best players why not push the full backs his invention further up? Absolute rubbish.

Wait until someone invents 4-4-2 to be the next master technician.
Pep is a horrible individual who thrives on success.
Give him wolves see if he survives relegation then rebuilds back.
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Better still. Give him Hartlepool and no money, see how he does
 
Houghtoner said:
Rags is stretching it mind. United were underachieving when Ferguson took over but they still had good players and were a huge club and able to go out and spent decent amounts.
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Agreed but his achievements at Aberdeen also deserve a mention. In terms of Klopp, what he did at Dortmund was exceptional too.

Pep cannot compare to the abovementioned two as he's always had a chequebook (and I'm not saying he couldn't do it, he just hasn't been anywhere to prove it).
hawaymadlad said:
They were able to entice the best players throughout Fergie’s reign. I’ve always thought he has been turned into some kind of God unnecessarily. Right place at the right time and jumped at the right time too. There was always plenty of cheating going on at United.
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Oh 100% with the dodgy referee decisions etc. They're no angels. But they never had charges against them related to financial doping. Fergie helped make Manchester United a global superpower. Pep on the other hand just gets 200m every window to see if mud sticks.
 
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Danny999 said:
Hardly a fair comparison given the wealth at Pep's disposal. Ferguson's achievement from rags to riches is significantly more impressive. Also, without the cheating from City, Klopp would have cleaned up.
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Rags! RAGS? Givower man they were getting the biggest gates in English football under Atkinson and winning trophies while regular top 6 finishers. Robson, Wilkins, Moses, Birtles etc were all big fees. Rags my hairy Mackem arse!
Danny999 said:
Agreed but his achievements at Aberdeen also deserve a mention.
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Fergies achievements at Aberdeen far outweigh those at Utd. Ally Macleod built a platform there that earned him the jock job but Fergie took them past the ugly sisters consistently and beat the biggest club on the planet in a European final. At Utd he merely took them past the biggest club in England to where it’s easier for them to be than anyone else and a bizarre CL title.
 
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riffraff said:
Rags! RAGS? Givower man they were getting the biggest gates in English football under Atkinson and winning trophies while regular top 6 finishers. Robson, Wilkins, Moses, Birtles etc were all big fees. Rags my hairy Mackem arse!

Fergies achievements at Aberdeen far outweigh those at Utd. Ally Macleod built a platform there that earned him the jock job but Fergie took them past the ugly sisters consistently and beat the biggest club on the planet in a European final. At Utd he merely took them past the biggest club in England to where it’s easier for them to be than anyone else and a bizarre CL title.
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Never underestimate how hard it is at a big club. Pressure is unreal.
 
riffraff said:
Rags! RAGS? Givower man they were getting the biggest gates in English football under Atkinson and winning trophies while regular top 6 finishers. Robson, Wilkins, Moses, Birtles etc were all big fees. Rags my hairy Mackem arse!

Fergies achievements at Aberdeen far outweigh those at Utd. Ally Macleod built a platform there that earned him the jock job but Fergie took them past the ugly sisters consistently and beat the biggest club on the planet in a European final. At Utd he merely took them past the biggest club in England to where it’s easier for them to be than anyone else and a bizarre CL title.
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Fergie turned Utd into a global superpower with revenue through the roof. He also toppled Liverpool to the highest amount of top division titles. Now tell me what has Pep done in comparison without financial doping?

As for my rags comment, I'm referring to the fact he didn't have 200m per transfer window (or equivalent in yesteryears money) at his disposal until he turned them into the success that we know of Utd today. Generated income compared to blank chequebook. Not even a debate for me.
 
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Danny999 said:
Fergie turned Utd into a global superpower with revenue through the roof. He also toppled Liverpool to the highest amount of top division titles. Now tell me what has Pep done in comparison without financial doping?

As for my rags comment, I'm referring to the fact he didn't have 200m per transfer window (or equivalent in yesteryears money) at his disposal until he turned them into the success that we know of Utd today. Generated income compared to blank chequebook. Not even a debate for me.
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You’re confusing me with someone who rates Peps achievements marra.

Utd were still the richest PL club back then though.
 
Zen Den said:
So football has never innovated? Did Scotland not start passing the ball in the 19th century and befuddle England? Even the fact keepers now need to be good on the deck is Pep-influenced. To use your own example, defending deep has a history of innovation too - catenaccio and its antecedents.

Like I’ve said, even among all the other managers and the best teams, his are statistically the best. That, together with the many trophies, and the countless anecdotal evidence from former players, suggests he knows a thing or two - maybe even more than you.

He doesn’t manage Wolves because he’s in high demand because of his ability - like why Mbappe doesn’t play for Wolves.

You can’t just say ‘absolute rubbish’ because your argument lacks substance and hope for the best.
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I could go into huge detail. Of course it’s evolved but not only since pep took the reins.
Here is the reason why he has been hugely successful.

According to Transfermarkt, the transfer will take City's total spending to £1.93bn since Guardiola's appointment - including over £700m on defenders.
Nearly 2 billion is an absolute disgrace
 
bowers2 said:
I could go into huge detail. Of course it’s evolved but not only since pep took the reins a *1
Here is the reason why he has been hugely successful.

According to Transfermarkt, the transfer will take City's total spending to £1.93bn since Guardiola's appointment - including over £700m on defenders.
Nearly 2 billion is an absolute disgrace *2
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*1 You can’t seem to keep track of your own argument. You originally said football innovators are a myth but when various innovations were put to you you’re now saying yes but they existed before Pep.

*2 Again, you can’t just say ‘here is the reason’ and expect that to carry the day in a discussion. We all know they’ve spent a lot - Man United spent a lot too - but whether that’s immoral as you seem to be suggesting (again a completely different discussion mind but I might well agree with you) doesn’t invalidate the success he’s achieved with that money.

As for the ‘huge detail’, not sure what you could even mean about that - sounds like something you say when you have nothing to say - but I await with bated breath. Just try and stick to your own discussion when getting into the details.
 
Zen Den said:
*1 You can’t seem to keep track of your own argument. You originally said football innovators are a myth but when various innovations were put to you you’re now saying yes but they existed before Pep.

*2 Again, you can’t just say ‘here is the reason’ and expect that to carry the day in a discussion. We all know they’ve spent a lot - Man United spent a lot too - but whether that’s immoral as you seem to be suggesting (again a completely different discussion mind but I might well agree with you) doesn’t invalidate the success he’s achieved with that money.

As for the ‘huge detail’, not sure what you could even mean about that - sounds like something you say when you have nothing to say - but I await with bated breath. Just try and stick to your own discussion when getting into the details.
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You just want to argue about anything. I’ve better things to do. Like MANY people. I don’t think he is good as people make him out to be. Over and out.
 
bowers2 said:
You just want to argue about anything. I’ve better things to do. Like MANY people. I don’t think he is good as people make him out to be. Over and out.
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But it was you who replied to me? You dismissively called what I said ‘absolute rubbish’ and then argued with it, and so I argued back at your arguments, and then you changed your arguments. And then you stopped arguing against my arguments altogether and made it about me instead. Me and the MANY.

Fortunately for both of us I don’t have better things to do so I can keep track.

Under and in.
 
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