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The Pep myth

Arfa Sleep said:
Cruyff and Michels are usually credited as the people who brought that style to Barcelona, if I remember correctly.
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And Cruyff learned it from his international coach in the 70's.
Nowt wrong with any of that, and Pep has taken that and improved it, but not changing the way the game is played.

Perfecting it is more what he has done.
joedurham said:
In his first season in management he took the Barça B side from the third to the second division.
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Agree mate, hence my first paragraph in the post you replied to.
 
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Georgewhitt said:
And Cruyff learned it from his international coach in the 70's.
Nowt wrong with any of that, and Pep has taken that and improved it, but not changing the way the game is played.

Perfecting it is more what he has done.

Agree mate, hence my first paragraph in the post you replied to.
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Yes, I am just backing you up.

However, I do think he has changed football, combining passing teams to death and a high press using players of a high technical quality rather than physical force. Another thing that singles Pep out is his eye for qualities in a player that other people don't see.

To arrive to mythical status though, he has to win the champions (this year please) with City.
 
joedurham said:
Yes, I am just backing you up.

However, I do think he has changed football, combining passing teams to death and a high press using players of a high technical quality rather than physical force. Another thing that singles Pep out is his eye for qualities in a player that other people don't see.

To arrive to mythical status though, he has to win the champions (this year please) with City.
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Again though mate, I don't think he has changed it. I think that this is the one area that his unique access to huge budgets is the difference.
Wengers teams were doing it, Liverpool in the 70s and early 80s were doing it, but Pep could have the best in the world in most positions, and the technical ability that brought with it.
System was the same, or similar, but Pep could have the absolute best doing it.
Not a slight on him as a coach, but the one area that money he has had, that has made the big difference imo.
 
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Georgewhitt said:
Again though mate, I don't think he has changed it. I think that this is the one area that his unique access to huge budgets is the difference.
Wengers teams were doing it, Liverpool in the 70s and early 80s were doing it, but Pep could have the best in the world in most positions, and the technical ability that brought with it.
System was the same, or similar, but Pep could have the absolute best doing it.
Not a slight on him as a coach, but the one area that money he has had, that has made the big difference imo.
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Can't agree. If you compare Pep's first season at Barça - winning the treble - with the previous season under Rikjaard where they finished third 18 points behind Madrid, the change is enormous. Pep kicked out Ronaldinho, Deco and various others and incorporated Busquets from the youth team, brought Pique back from Utd and made 1 big signing, Alves. Messi, Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta were already there. The change was the coaching and the system.
 
AC Mack said:
I don't know, what are your thoughts on his achievements?


'Don't bring league titles into it'.

Almost signature worthy.
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Lee Johnson could have won the Bundesliga and Premier League with the teams Pep has had.
Georgewhitt said:
Again though mate, I don't think he has changed it. I think that this is the one area that his unique access to huge budgets is the difference.
Wengers teams were doing it, Liverpool in the 70s and early 80s were doing it, but Pep could have the best in the world in most positions, and the technical ability that brought with it.
System was the same, or similar, but Pep could have the absolute best doing it.
Not a slight on him as a coach, but the one area that money he has had, that has made the big difference imo.
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Boring Tiki Taka with 70% possession and 1 shot on target is a change for the worse.
joedurham said:
Can't agree. If you compare Pep's first season at Barça - winning the treble - with the previous season under Rikjaard where they finished third 18 points behind Madrid, the change is enormous. Pep kicked out Ronaldinho, Deco and various others and incorporated Busquets from the youth team, brought Pique back from Utd and made 1 big signing, Alves. Messi, Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta were already there. The change was the coaching and the system.
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Busquets: the biggest cheat ever. If he played for any other team he’d never have lasted a game without two yellows. Constantly fouled with impunity, but as soon as someone tried to tackle him he goes down and grabs the ball. Pep won two Champions Leagues based on this, and then got the two easiest jobs in Europe in terms of domestic league titles. But has failed in Europe without the help of referees he had at Barca. Ancelotti, Mourinho, Heinckes have all won multiple Champions Leagues since Pep last did, including with less financially backed sides.
 
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joedurham said:
Can't agree. If you compare Pep's first season at Barça - winning the treble - with the previous season under Rikjaard where they finished third 18 points behind Madrid, the change is enormous. Pep kicked out Ronaldinho, Deco and various others and incorporated Busquets from the youth team, brought Pique back from Utd and made 1 big signing, Alves. Messi, Xavi, Puyol and Iniesta were already there. The change was the coaching and the system.
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Not in question mate.
You are right.
However, the "system" was one he had learned and came from his footballing education, not one he had "invented".
Mate, I am not trying to take anything away from the guy, or question his achievements, just simply asking people to temper the "he has reinvented the way football is played" mantra that is being touted.
 
Georgewhitt said:
Brilliant.

No matter how much money he has had to spend, he has produced amazing results, and deserves the plaudits he gets.

However I struggle with the idea that some have, that he has changed the way the game is played. He has moulded some of the best players in the world to play the game the way he wants it played, but he hasn't invented that style of play. It was being played, in one form or another, previously. He is a product of his footballing upbringing, and has taken philosophies he has learned, and put them in to practice.

Brilliant, but not totally original, as some would have you believe
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come on man! He has re-engineered DNA strings! He has looked inside a Reissner-Nordstrom blackhole so as to fully take into account the gravitational pull, he slips extracts of Bell's Theorum in his team talk so his players sub consciously take on board the idea that local hidden variable theories are simply incompatible with quantum mechanics!
 
Shambo said:
come on man! He has re-engineered DNA strings! He has looked inside a Reissner-Nordstrom blackhole so as to fully take into account the gravitational pull, he slips extracts of Bell's Theorum in his team talk so his players sub consciously take on board the idea that local hidden variable theories are simply incompatible with quantum mechanics!
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Oh yeah. Forgot all of that. What a fuckwit I am🤪
What the fuck was I thinking?😉
 
Football evolves.
I don't think anybody has 'reinvented' it - but he's been incredibly influential - just like Wenger was with his healthy living and being fit mantra. Just as Fergie was with being prepared to lose anybody who challenged his authority, and instilling believe in youngsters to the point where they feared nobody.

I don't see it as reinvention, just applying some techniques using very talented players to the point where their self belief, and belief in him make a considerable difference.

City work hard. Incredibly hard. Often they put in more miles than the opposition despite having the ball most of the time. They have a lot of belief - because the belief snowballs once you start winning things and you know you have talent. Teams fear you, and you have confidence in yourself. It makes a big difference.

City aren't all down to Pep. They were bloody good before him. They are organised off the pitch as well as on it. They are able to attract top players and feel like a stable club to join. Having a manager of his reputation just adds to it all.

Klopp had/has a reputation for 'heavy metal' football. Liverpool adopted that style with a lot of success. It wasn't a new style, it was just given a name and associated with Klopp.
The same with Pep. High work-rate, technical ability all over the pitch and bags of self-belief are not new.
 
FanchesterCity said:
Football evolves.
I don't think anybody has 'reinvented' it - but he's been incredibly influential - just like Wenger was with his healthy living and being fit mantra. Just as Fergie was with being prepared to lose anybody who challenged his authority, and instilling believe in youngsters to the point where they feared nobody.

I don't see it as reinvention, just applying some techniques using very talented players to the point where their self belief, and belief in him make a considerable difference.

City work hard. Incredibly hard. Often they put in more miles than the opposition despite having the ball most of the time. They have a lot of belief - because the belief snowballs once you start winning things and you know you have talent. Teams fear you, and you have confidence in yourself. It makes a big difference.

City aren't all down to Pep. They were bloody good before him. They are organised off the pitch as well as on it. They are able to attract top players and feel like a stable club to join. Having a manager of his reputation just adds to it all.

Klopp had/has a reputation for 'heavy metal' football. Liverpool adopted that style with a lot of success. It wasn't a new style, it was just given a name and associated with Klopp.
The same with Pep. High work-rate, technical ability all over the pitch and bags of self-belief are not new.
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This really
 
Good as my pit cap said:
Bloke is obviously a very good coach but come on. 🙄 you get it wrong buy another one. Games shit because of it. I fukin hate City and Chelsea
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Been that way for Donkeys years marra.
Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea etc.
Go back far enough, and some would say we f***ing started it.
We were known as "The Bank of England Club" back in the day.
 
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