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The Pep myth

Georgewhitt said:
No he hasn't

Explain how.
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Before he came to the prem only a handful of specific teams played out from the back religiously or seemed to know how to make it work including the high press down the other end of the pitch. Pep arrived at City and it took them ages to get it right as it was so different to how football was played in this country. No matter how much danger they were in of losing possession in a dangerous area he forced them to learn how to manage their way out of it without giving up the ball or hoofing it away. Now every team does it including newly promoted sides.

He influenced how football is played in this country whether you like it or not, sorry.
 

LondonMackem said:
Before he came to the prem only a handful of specific teams played out from the back religiously or seemed to know how to make it work including the high press down the other end of the pitch. Pep arrived at City and it took them ages to get it right as it was so different to how football was played in this country. No matter how much danger they were in of losing possession in a dangerous area he forced them to learn how to manage their way out of it without giving up the ball or hoofing it away. Now every team does it including newly promoted sides.

He influenced how football is played in this country whether you like it or not, sorry.
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Mate, you start your answer by admitting a handful of teams already did it.
Thats not changing it marra, thats adopting a style of play that already existed.
I am a fan of Pep, but lets not overplay his influence. Ask anyone who played for Wenger. He was the real gamechanger to pro football in this country.
 
Brilliant manager. One of, if not the, best around right now.

The discussion around him though is similar to a lot of talk around modern day top level football, which is where some people seem to feel the need to use exaggerating language to describe him to such a ridiculous level because they think it makes them look like more of a football fan if they do that.
 
joedurham said:
The only other really good team in Europe is Madrid - we will see how they get on in two weeks time. However, watching the game again this morning I was just amazed by how City bring together all the elements, skill, power, pace, organisation, team solidarity into an awesome mix.
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Ancelotti will have a plan in place to nullify all that, something which the premier numbskulls have not been able to come up with.
 
Georgewhitt said:
No he hasn't

Explain how.
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There's a lot of talk these days about the merits of discussing a team's formation or shape, and the likes of Guardiola have been massively influential in this.

Even in the past handful of games, Guardiola has used an idea barely seen in this country for the last 100 years, by reigniting the WM - 3-2-2-3. Not only has this shape been obsolete for such a long time, it's been reinvented but used in a completely different way to the past as it's a much more fluid shape now.

He's able to come up with different ideas that allow his team to control and overload all areas of the pitch. And like Pep under the influence of Bielsa, less experienced managers like Arteta and Xavi are now showing their worth from the tutelage of Guardiola.
 
AC Mack said:
There's a lot of talk these days about the merits of discussing a team's formation or shape, and the likes of Guardiola have been massively influential in this.

Even in the past handful of games, Guardiola has used an idea barely seen in this country for the last 100 years, by reigniting the WM - 3-2-2-3. Not only has this shape been obsolete for such a long time, it's been reinvented but used in a completely different way to the past as it's a much more fluid shape now.

He's able to come up with different ideas that allow his team to control and overload all areas of the pitch. And like Pep under the influence of Bielsa, less experienced managers like Arteta and Xavi are now showing their worth from the tutelage of Guardiola.
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I agree that he is a great coach mate. That is indisputable. Could he make a club in the lower leagues relatively successful? Yes he could.
Is he the all knowing Messiah that some people make him out to be? No mate, he's not. He's a very good coach that has worked for some of the wealthiest clubs on the planet.
Would he have got our lot to this level as well as Uncle Tony?
Probably, but it will never be tested.
 
Georgewhitt said:
I agree that he is a great coach mate. That is indisputable. Could he make a club in the lower leagues relatively successful? Yes he could.
Is he the all knowing Messiah that some people make him out to be? No mate, he's not. He's a very good coach that has worked for some of the wealthiest clubs on the planet.
Would he have got our lot to this level as well as Uncle Tony?
Probably, but it will never be tested.
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There's no such thing as an all-knowing Messiah (unless you're religious) so it's a non-starter really. He's a generational talent, the managerial equivalent of a Messi or Haaland.
 
AC Mack said:
There's no such thing as an all-knowing Messiah (unless you're religious) so it's a non-starter really. He's a generational talent, the managerial equivalent of a Messi or Haaland.
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Agree mate.
But he hasn't changed the game. He has taken existing theories on the way the game can be played, and bless him, he's had the balls to see it through.
Some of the football his teams have played has been sublime marra.
Great coach? Absolutely.
Myth? No.
Best ever,? Jury's out. Too many imponderables, mostly centering around his budgets compared to others.
 
Georgewhitt said:
Agree mate.
But he hasn't changed the game. He has taken existing theories on the way the game can be played, and bless him, he's had the balls to see it through.
Some of the football his teams have played has been sublime marra.
Great coach? Absolutely.
Myth? No.
Best ever,? Jury's out. Too many imponderables, mostly centering around his budgets compared to others.
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I think when we start asking questions such as 'best ever?' then it's probably best to just appreciate what a wonderful proponent that particular person is at their profession.
 
AC Mack said:
I think when we start asking questions such as 'best ever?' then it's probably best to just appreciate what a wonderful proponent that particular person is at their profession.
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Agree.
Thread title is focussing on the word myth.
He is not a myth, neither is his success, but that also includes perspective on his achievements, that some of his supporters seem to want to ignore mate.
 
still dines out on the Champs League wins 15 years ago or whenever, where he relied on refs giving any tackle on Barca as a foul whilst allowing Busquets to commit a dozen yellow card offences per game. He didn’t get that assistance at Bayern or City which is why he has failed at those clubs…and don’t bring league titles into it because any half decent manager would have won the titles with the teams he has.
 
UpTheDuff said:
still dines out on the Champs League wins 15 years ago or whenever, where he relied on refs giving any tackle on Barca as a foul whilst allowing Busquets to commit a dozen yellow card offences per game. He didn’t get that assistance at Bayern or City which is why he has failed at those clubs…and don’t bring league titles into it because any half decent manager would have won the titles with the teams he has.
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He's won something like 34 trophies, still dines on those CL wins though :lol:
 
Georgewhitt said:
Where do I question that?
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I don't know, what are your thoughts on his achievements?
UpTheDuff said:
still dines out on the Champs League wins 15 years ago or whenever, where he relied on refs giving any tackle on Barca as a foul whilst allowing Busquets to commit a dozen yellow card offences per game. He didn’t get that assistance at Bayern or City which is why he has failed at those clubs…and don’t bring league titles into it because any half decent manager would have won the titles with the teams he has.
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'Don't bring league titles into it'.

Almost signature worthy.
 
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AC Mack said:
I don't know, what are your thoughts on his achievements?
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Brilliant.

No matter how much money he has had to spend, he has produced amazing results, and deserves the plaudits he gets.

However I struggle with the idea that some have, that he has changed the way the game is played. He has moulded some of the best players in the world to play the game the way he wants it played, but he hasn't invented that style of play. It was being played, in one form or another, previously. He is a product of his footballing upbringing, and has taken philosophies he has learned, and put them in to practice.

Brilliant, but not totally original, as some would have you believe.

I just hope he wins the Champions League with City, to cement his legacy with them.
 
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Georgewhitt said:
Brilliant.

No matter how much money he has had to spend, he has produced amazing results, and deserves the plaudits he gets.

However I struggle with the idea that some have, that he has changed the way the game is played. He has moulded some of the best players in the world to play the game the way he wants it played, but he hasn't invented that style of play. It was being played, in one form or another, previously. He is a product of his footballing upbringing, and has taken philosophies he has learned, and put them in to practice.

Brilliant, but not totally original, as some would have you believe.

I just hope he wins the Champions League with City, to cement his legacy with them.
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Cruyff and Michels are usually credited as the people who brought that style to Barcelona, if I remember correctly.
 
Georgewhitt said:
I agree that he is a great coach mate. That is indisputable. Could he make a club in the lower leagues relatively successful? Yes he could.
Is he the all knowing Messiah that some people make him out to be? No mate, he's not. He's a very good coach that has worked for some of the wealthiest clubs on the planet.
Would he have got our lot to this level as well as Uncle Tony?
Probably, but it will never be tested.
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In his first season in management he took the Barça B side from the third to the second division.
 
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