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The Pep myth

Georgewhitt said:
But all I said about Millwall was that I think Pep would have got them over the line and promoted. Do what you want others to do. READ IT.
Your proposition invited opinions, and you got one. Just because you disagree with it, doesn't make it wrong.
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And there’s been some good opinions, just a shame yours, about football being “exactly the same”, wasn’t :lol:
 

Sallycinamon said:
What makes you think it’s an obsession?

Like I said, it’ll never happen. Why would it?

Im not saying whether they’d succeed or fail. I’m saying it would be interesting, for example, to see if say Guardiola could do what Franke has done at Brentford. Or what Eddie Howe did at Bournemouth, or what Robins has done at Coventry.
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So based on that logic Messi and co can’t be taken seriously until they do it in a shit team?
 
Sallycinamon said:
And there’s been some good opinions, just a shame yours, about football being “exactly the same”, wasn’t :lol:
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Your being a bit daft now marra.
It's 11 v 11. In that respect it is exactly the same, and I have repeatedly agreed on so many occasions that other things have changed within the game.
Just accept that you are vulnerable to criticism, as everyone is, and that sometimes you should maybe, just maybe, stop while you still have a shred of credibility. ( No laughy emojis, you may notice)
 
Sallycinamon said:
But the gulf between where the likes of Clough and Shankly took teams from and got teams to is as big as its ever been, far bigger than in those days, hence why “the game” is nowhere near the same as it was. It may still be 11 v 11 but it’s a massive gulf in class compared to what it was, so much so that their feats will never be seen again. Hence why the Millwall analogy was perfect.
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Like when people say Clough was a top striker because despite his goals being in the second tier. They wouldn't say that now about a championship striker.
 
SAFC 2012 said:
So based on that logic Messi and co can’t be taken seriously until they do it in a shit team?
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Not at all, management and playing are two totally different scenarios, we’re specifically talking about management here. I’ve never once said Guardiola wouldn’t be able to succeed at a lower level, I’m saying the hypothetical scenario would be very interesting.
Georgewhitt said:
Your being a bit daft now marra.
It's 11 v 11. In that respect it is exactly the same, and I have repeatedly agreed on so many occasions that other things have changed within the game.
Just accept that you are vulnerable to criticism, as everyone is, and that sometimes you should maybe, just maybe, stop while you still have a shred of credibility. ( No laughy emojis, you may notice)
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Okay, the numerical make up of either side is exactly the same, I can’t see that ever changing, it will always be 11 v 11. That’s where the exact similarities end.
 
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Sallycinamon said:
Okay, the numerical make up of either side is exactly the same, I can’t see that ever changing, it will always be 11 v 11. That’s where the exact similarities end.
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No it's not, but if that makes you able to walk away with your head held high, then fair enough marra.
 
Sallycinamon said:
But the gulf between where the likes of Clough and Shankly took teams from and got teams to is as big as its ever been, far bigger than in those days, hence why “the game” is nowhere near the same as it was. It may still be 11 v 11 but it’s a massive gulf in class compared to what it was, so much so that their feats will never be seen again. Hence why the Millwall analogy was perfect.
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Due to technological, nutrition and fitness development, the gulf, if anything, has shrunk. Professional teams all have access to what they need these days, and the sheer amount of football players at all levels now means that only the best of the best make it to a professional level.

The discrepancies which exist today are largely financial based.
 
AC Mack said:
Due to technological, nutrition and fitness development, the gulf, if anything, has shrunk. Professional teams all have access to what they need these days, and the sheer amount of football players at all levels now means that only the best of the best make it to a professional level.

The discrepancies which exist today are largely financial based.
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Both Clough and Shankly took second division clubs to the top of the English game, in Clough’s case it was an unfashionable mid-table second division club to the top of European football. The gulf between the two was sizeable but nowhere near what it is today. Compare Forest to whichever unfashionable, mid-table championship side you see fit - Bristol City are perhaps a good comparison, maybe WBA. I can guarantee a manager will never, in my lifetime, go to either of those clubs, get them promoted, win the PL and then win the CL. The gulf these days is simply too big. It’s nion impossible to get unfashionable clubs into the top 4, let alone winning the title and then conquering Europe.
 
Georgewhitt said:
No he hasn't

Explain how.
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Which other manager has had keepers constantly passing sideways off goal kicks before? Before Guardiola arrived I’d never seen teams starting attacks from their own goal line before, making the pitch as big as possible to be in a position to exploit space. You must admit this brand of extreme playing out from the back, which Guariola has instilled at City, has never been seen in our league before.
 
Sallycinamon said:
Which other manager has had keepers constantly passing sideways off goal kicks before? Before Guardiola arrived I’d never seen teams starting attacks from their own goal line before, making the pitch as big as possible to be in a position to exploit space. You must admit this brand of extreme playing out from the back, which Guariola has instilled at City, has never been seen in our league before.
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Agree mate, but that's not changing the way the game is played.
European and South American football has been played like that for donkeys years.
Look, I am a massive fan of Pep.
I believe he is up there in the pantheon of the best, but lets have a bit of perspective.
 
Georgewhitt said:
Agree mate, but that's not changing the way the game is played.
European and South American football has been played like that for donkeys years.
Look, I am a massive fan of Pep.
I believe he is up there in the pantheon of the best, but lets have a bit of perspective.
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Sorry, I was reading it as he’s changed the way the game’s played in this country.

The biggest revolutionary in English football was Wenger, he was the start of the modern day professional footballer, with the emphasis on professional.
 
Sallycinamon said:
Sorry, I was reading it as he’s changed the way the game’s played in this country.

The biggest revolutionary in English football was Wenger, he was the start of the modern day professional footballer, with the emphasis on professional.
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Absolutely marra.
He was the one that did stuff differently.
 
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