Takeover

[ChicagoCat]

If the Americans were to fully engage, which they might if we are to gain more success..mmm.

He spelled "Awabs" wrong. C'mon Stewie.

 

[kildaremackem]

you are mad as out charlie

still no idea how you haven't been banned.

the club is worth a lot less than what he paid for it

which was fuck all

presume you mean a lot more? and as they have spent about £20m on it i think..good luck finding someone who will give them much more than that and aompensate them for the time they have put in..they paid £15m..which was a bargain..but they had some struggles on the way to whatever valuation they might get now..

This for me is the biggest question of all .
What is the point of Sartori? Why was he brought in? What does he bring to the club and why has he not put any money in the club?

who says he hasnt? some fucker has..
maybe he came in as a punt..then changed his mind..?

 

[Abu Dhabi Red and White]

and compensate them for the time they have put in

Which has been massive and forgotten by the 'chancer and quick buck brigade'...

 

[sir rowell cummins]

So you’re defending his job title, not the fact I think he’s full of shit.

It appears you've gone from the resident financial adviser to resident know it all looking back through posting history.

Interesting.

You’re very argumentative lad I must say.

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

presume you mean a lot more? and as they have spent about £20m on it i think..good luck finding someone who will give them much more than that and aompensate them for the time they have put in..they paid £15m..which was a bargain..but they had some struggles on the way to whatever valuation they might get now..

who says he hasnt? some fucker has..
maybe he came in as a punt..then changed his mind..?

How much you spend on something doesn't automatically equate to an increase in value mind. If I have a house and I spend £5,000 on a shit load of cleaning products and I scrub the floor every day it doesn't mean i can add £5k onto my asking price when I sell it because what I've spent money on hasn't increased its value. Same as how I can't say I've spent loads of money on gas and electricity and add that onto an asking price. If I bought it when it had a leaking roof and a broken boiler then aye, I could say I've increased the property's value by giving it a new roof and a new boiler but simply spending doesn't automatically mean the value has gone up.

The question isn't how much has Donald spent on safc, the question is whether its worth more now than when he bought it. I'm not going to pretend to know the answer as I don't have the financials. What I can say is that, on the face of it, I struggle to see what value he's added. There's no parachute payments left (I get that costs have gone down as well, but still), equally you look on the pitch, how much value is there? If new owners wanted to sell every player and use the money to go towards new signings, how much would we genuinely get? Precious little I'd imagine. He hasn't improved the infrastructure as far as I can tell, he hasn't brought in vastly superior sponsorship deals. If safc, for arguments sake, was worth £40m when he bought it, I don't see how that value can have gone up since

 

[sir rowell cummins]

presume you mean a lot more? and as they have spent about £20m on it i think..good luck finding someone who will give them much more than that and aompensate them for the time they have put in..they paid £15m..which was a bargain..but they had some struggles on the way to whatever valuation they might get now..

who says he hasnt? some fucker has..
maybe he came in as a punt..then changed his mind..?

He also bought a club equipped to get promoted. He’d be selling a club that needed investment to get promoted.

 

[kildaremackem]

He also bought a club equipped to get promoted. He’d be selling a club that needed investment to get promoted.

he didnt buy a club equipped to get promoted..he bought one with huge sums to be spennt on wages of players who didnt want to be here..

he got rid of them and spent vast sums on new players..#


the total cost of geting rpmoted from this league is zero pounds...it doesnt cost anything if you run it properly..the club certainly doesnt need new money o get promoted..it probably needs a new stroker but thats all..and that can easily be funded from within the club if need be,.,because these owneers have generated new money in addiiton to the huge sums they have spent..

How much you spend on something doesn't automatically equate to an increase in value mind. If I have a house and I spend £5,000 on a shit load of cleaning products and I scrub the floor every day it doesn't mean i can add £5k onto my asking price when I sell it because what I've spent money on hasn't increased its value. Same as how I can't say I've spent loads of money on gas and electricity and add that onto an asking price. If I bought it when it had a leaking roof and a broken boiler then aye, I could say I've increased the property's value by giving it a new roof and a new boiler but simply spending doesn't automatically mean the value has gone up.

The question isn't how much has Donald spent on safc, the question is whether its worth more now than when he bought it. I'm not going to pretend to know the answer as I don't have the financials. What I can say is that, on the face of it, I struggle to see what value he's added. There's no parachute payments left (I get that costs have gone down as well, but still), equally you look on the pitch, how much value is there? If new owners wanted to sell every player and use the money to go towards new signings, how much would we genuinely get? Precious little I'd imagine. He hasn't improved the infrastructure as far as I can tell, he hasn't brought in vastly superior sponsorship deals. If safc, for arguments sake, was worth £40m when he bought it, I don't see how that value can have gone up since

i dont think it has gone up since..neither do they if media report are correct and they want £35m for it...turnover excluding parachute payments is supposed to be over £20m against a target they set of £15.5m...so new money has come in (some or maybe most of that is they sold more seasontickets than expected)

 

[sir rowell cummins]

How much you spend on something doesn't automatically equate to an increase in value mind. If I have a house and I spend £5,000 on a shit load of cleaning products and I scrub the floor every day it doesn't mean i can add £5k onto my asking price when I sell it because what I've spent money on hasn't increased its value. Same as how I can't say I've spent loads of money on gas and electricity and add that onto an asking price. If I bought it when it had a leaking roof and a broken boiler then aye, I could say I've increased the property's value by giving it a new roof and a new boiler but simply spending doesn't automatically mean the value has gone up.

The question isn't how much has Donald spent on safc, the question is whether its worth more now than when he bought it. I'm not going to pretend to know the answer as I don't have the financials. What I can say is that, on the face of it, I struggle to see what value he's added. There's no parachute payments left (I get that costs have gone down as well, but still), equally you look on the pitch, how much value is there? If new owners wanted to sell every player and use the money to go towards new signings, how much would we genuinely get? Precious little I'd imagine. He hasn't improved the infrastructure as far as I can tell, he hasn't brought in vastly superior sponsorship deals. If safc, for arguments sake, was worth £40m when he bought it, I don't see how that value can have gone up since

In the summer we will have less money out on wages , but less money in and very few players on our books so a need to spend plus below quality footballers at every level so again a need to spend. We are only attractive because of our fan base many of which are disillusioned and promise of better things with the right investment. Is any of that incorrect ?

 

[kildaremackem]

In the summer we will have less money out on wages , but less money in and very few players on our books so a need to spend plus below quality footballers at every level so again a need to spend. We are only attractive because of our fan base many of which are disillusioned and promise of better things with the right investment. Is any of that incorrect ?

upou dont need to spend to get uality in this league..no other team does..why should sudnerland.
club wont be attractive to players because if the fans..but because they will be one of the favourites to go up..

 

[Guinness Guzzler]

he didnt buy a club equipped to get promoted..he bought one with huge sums to be spennt on wages of players who didnt want to be here..

he got rid of them and spent vast sums on new players..#


the total cost of geting rpmoted from this league is zero pounds...it doesnt cost anything if you run it properly..the club certainly doesnt need new money o get promoted..it probably needs a new stroker but thats all..and that can easily be funded from within the club if need be,.,because these owneers have generated new money in addiiton to the huge sums they have spent..

i dont think it has gone up since..neither do they if media report are correct and they want £35m for it...turnover excluding parachute payments is supposed to be over £20m against a target they set of £15.5m...so new money has come in (some or maybe most of that is they sold more seasontickets than expected)

Fair enough, but I thought the £40m was including the parachute payment which, as we know, was actually club money going to pay off a club debt, so the shares themselves when Donald bought them were £15m. I'm probably missing something but if the shares were £15m then I don't see how they're £35m now?

 

[Banks]

I'm assuming you already know this, but he factually didn't use the parachute money to buy the club. The parachute payment money was used by the club to pay off a debt the club needed to pay off.

Complain that you think the club was worth more, or you want to see the owner invest more of his own money but he did not use parachute payments to buy the club.

So why the loan?

Roughly 10m revenue
16m final parachute payment

Did our costs really exceed 26m this season?

 

[sir rowell cummins]

he didnt buy a club equipped to get promoted..he bought one with huge sums to be spennt on wages of players who didnt want to be here..

he got rid of them and spent vast sums on new players..#


the total cost of geting rpmoted from this league is zero pounds...it doesnt cost anything if you run it properly..the club certainly doesnt need new money o get promoted..it probably needs a new stroker but thats all..and that can easily be funded from within the club if need be,.,because these owneers have generated new money in addiiton to the huge sums they have spent..

i dont think it has gone up since..neither do they if media report are correct and they want £35m for it...turnover excluding parachute payments is supposed to be over £20m against a target they set of £15.5m...so new money has come in (some or maybe most of that is they sold more seasontickets than expected)

What ‘vast sums’ did he spend on new players ? He saved vast sums on players that is a fact. And bought worse ones at the cost of our promotion. The restructuring of playing staff has been a disaster so much so we are not good enough. Ross was only ‘partly’ to blame. Tell me that’s not true. Wages of courses needed to reduce but if he spent fortunes how did he reduce debt ?

upou dont need to spend to get uality in this league..no other team does..why should sudnerland.
club wont be attractive to players because if the fans..but because they will be one of the favourites to go up..

Name the free goal scorer we’d get on 2k a week clever arse

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Grumpy, you've previously suggested that Donald would need to sell for 37 million to break even. Chris for WMS has been highly sceptical about this. But has said we'd have to wait til next accounts released to know for sure.

With donald confidently saying he will sell for a profit does this suggest that he wont need to sell for 37 million to make a profit. And as a result also suggest the club will never see the parachute money?

He can sell for less if he sells Madrox and leaves the new owners to deal with the intercompany debt between Madrox and Sunderland. That means anything over £12m or so gives him a profit, and the new owners a £25m problem.

 

[kildaremackem]

Fair enough, but I thought the £40m was including the parachute payment which, as we know, was actually club money going to pay off a club debt, so the shares themselves when Donald bought them were £15m. I'm probably missing something but if the shares were £15m then I don't see how they're £35m now?

thats a vakid question to ask yes...the £40m is the enetrprise value 9shares plus debt taken on)
the enterprise value of safc now is whatever the bares are worth plus £9m loan from fpp...im not saying £35m is the rigth number..maybe the equity bit is worth more than £15m based on the better financial position..but i agree it hard to get to £35m..as if you said the starting point was £15m plus the £9m fpp debt thats £24m..enterprise value..
now the fact the debt has fallen in that calculation from £25m to £9m probabky meabs the equity is worth more than £15m...but to get to £35m enterprise value would mean the equity has risen fromn £15m to £326m..which is a stretch if the club is still in league one..as i say i think is more than £15m now...but how much more is an interesting question..

 

[Coeus]

How much you spend on something doesn't automatically equate to an increase in value mind. If I have a house and I spend £5,000 on a shit load of cleaning products and I scrub the floor every day it doesn't mean i can add £5k onto my asking price when I sell it because what I've spent money on hasn't increased its value. Same as how I can't say I've spent loads of money on gas and electricity and add that onto an asking price. If I bought it when it had a leaking roof and a broken boiler then aye, I could say I've increased the property's value by giving it a new roof and a new boiler but simply spending doesn't automatically mean the value has gone up.

The question isn't how much has Donald spent on safc, the question is whether its worth more now than when he bought it. I'm not going to pretend to know the answer as I don't have the financials. What I can say is that, on the face of it, I struggle to see what value he's added. There's no parachute payments left (I get that costs have gone down as well, but still), equally you look on the pitch, how much value is there? If new owners wanted to sell every player and use the money to go towards new signings, how much would we genuinely get? Precious little I'd imagine. He hasn't improved the infrastructure as far as I can tell, he hasn't brought in vastly superior sponsorship deals. If safc, for arguments sake, was worth £40m when he bought it, I don't see how that value can have gone up since

Despite the amount of talk on the subject, I still dont think it's clear what they actually have to pay back do we?

If he thought he was getting it for 15 but he actually has to pay back another 25 or add that in the cost, theres no wonder people wont buy the club.

I dont see this profit for donald, even more so in the league above.

I'm assuming you already know this, but he factually didn't use the parachute money to buy the club. The parachute payment money was used by the club to pay off a debt the club needed to pay off.

Complain that you think the club was worth more, or you want to see the owner invest more of his own money but he did not use parachute payments to buy the club.

Despite saying he had paid 40m for the club and that the parachute payments were to secure the fact that he would pay ellis, they weren't there to be used.

Everyone saying how harsh our support can be, I think we can be incredibly forgiving to be honest.

 

[Mainze]

What supporters want him gone exactly?

Me, do you drive a taxi? I’ll give you the fare.

 

[kwillhen]

Donald said it was takeover talks initially but then quickly changed to investment first then to see how it goes. He had it all done and dusted when it clearly wasn't. Then all these rubbish rumours that it was SD changing the price wish was rubbish. If SD had been messing them about they would of walked away fullstop

Jack ross is quoted saying he has met the new OWNERS and like the direction and ideas they have for the club. The next day SD was on Twitter saying dood news tomorrow with wink emojis.. nothing happened! Then its investment, then its a loan.

There was nothing quick about the change in direction by SD!
But yeah

He can sell for less if he sells Madrox and leaves the new owners to deal with the intercompany debt between Madrox and Sunderland. That means anything over £12m or so gives him a profit, and the new owners a £25m problem.

But the club is debt free? 9 million loan from GPP must not be debt. CM and SD said so. Or does the company that own the club have the debt.

 

[No. 1 is Gary Rowell]

Despite the amount of talk on the subject, I still dont think it's clear what they actually have to pay back do we?

If he thought he was getting it for 15 but he actually has to pay back another 25 or add that in the cost, theres no wonder people wont buy the club.

I dont see this profit for donald, even more so in the league above.


Despite saying he had paid 40m for the club and that the parachute payments were to secure the fact that he would pay ellis, they weren't there to be used.

Everyone saying how harsh our support can be, I think we can be incredibly forgiving to be honest.

Just falling asleep but having read this thread you seem to be closest to the truth. SD paid about £12m to Ellis Short but they also used the parachute payments to pay SBC due to the timing issue. If anyone cares to listen back to the 1st interview with SD and CM then you’ll hear SD say the deal is £40m and CM say they have to pay things over time. SD also confirmed this in the interview on bbc Newcastle back in October time. @fyl2u will confirm this

 

[spitfire]

You’re very argumentative lad I must say.

He seems to know a lot about posters on here for someone on the subs bench. Hmmm. Wonder who it is?

 

[Lord Potts]

I can't imagine that anyone would want to buy a football club during a world crisis . May be next year