Southgate - time to admit this place was wrong?

[Yer da claims JSA]

Just because we got beat by poorer teams previously that doesn't mean he's doing a good job by beating teams we should at the moment.

He’s built a team of players that work to a system, rather than sacrificing the system in favour of shoehorning in players out of position - the first English manager I’ve ever seen do that.

He’s gotten to two successive semi finals. No English manager has ever done that.

He’s got us to the semi finals without conceding a goal.

He’s doing a good job

 

[Morny]

Thing is now, people are so set in their views and determined to proven right, they’ll never accept owt.

Timeline of criticisms has gone

- “He’s a Yes Man” - drops Rooney, Hart etc and brings in lots of young ‘uns

- “He’s too defensive” - one of top scorers at last WC

- “He’ll do shit in a tournament” - got to WC Semi-Finals

“He can’t beat a top team” - beat Spain, Croatia and Belgium in Nations League

“Can’t beat a top team in a tournament” - beat Croatia in Euros

“can’t beat a top team in a tournament knockout game” - beat Germany


Like, at what point are people just going to give him credit? I can see how it goes, even if we win

“Well we won but we were boring”
“Germany are shit now and draw was easy”
“Got all the games at home”
“Lucky Muller didn’t score”

Like, everything he does well is brushed off as luck/fortune/bare-minimum by those determined to be proven right in their believe Southgate was a bad appointment. Nothing can change their mind.

 

[FN-2187]

If we don't win the tournament the told you so brigade will be out In force the moment the ref blows the final whistle.

 

[rentaghost]

Thing is now, people are so set in their views and determined to proven right, they’ll never accept owt.

Timeline of criticisms has gone

- “He’s a Yes Man” - drops Rooney, Hart etc and brings in lots of young ‘uns

- “He’s too defensive” - one of top scorers at last WC

- “He’ll do shit in a tournament” - got to WC Semi-Finals

“He can’t beat a top team” - beat Spain, Croatia and Belgium in Nations League

“Can’t beat a top team in a tournament” - beat Croatia in Euros

“can’t beat a top team in a tournament knockout game” - beat Germany


Like, at what point are people just going to give him credit? I can see how it goes, even if we win

“Well we won but we were boring”
“Germany are shit now and draw was easy”
“Got all the games at home”
“Lucky Muller didn’t score”

Like, everything he does well is brushed off as luck/fortune/bare-minimum by those determined to be proven right in their believe Southgate was a bad appointment. Nothing can change their mind.

You put your argument across really well but to summarise some people are just thick as fuck.

If we don't win the tournament the told you so brigade will be out In force the moment the ref blows the final whistle.

Why didn't he play Grealish and Foden FFS etc

 

[Jack Torrance]

He’s been class, some are still desperate for him to fail I see

 

[Sunderlandafc2020]

I think you’re forgetting some things

Euro 2016 - lost 2-1 to Iceland in round of 16
World Cup 2014 - finished bottom of a group that included Costa Rica
Euro 2012 - lost to Italy in QFs
World Cup 2010 - lost 4-1 to Germany in round of 16
Euro 2008 - didn’t qualify

he’s taken us to two semi finals. From this

Hey not going to lie, you have a solid argument when you bring up these facts.

A lot of these tournaments were outright failures. Under Gareth Southgate we can clearly see there is an improvement especially with the mentality of the team and we can agree that he more than likely isn't going to be an outright failure.

We also have to consider how good the current England team is, how good the other countries are now and how good England were in these tournaments vs how good other countries were. Not withstanding the fact that more countries qualify for the Euros now, so even the wally with a brolly could make it to a major tournament if he managed England today.

Here and now this England team is far and away on paper the best England team on paper since 2008, we're playing 90% of the games at home with a favourable draw. It's kind of like saying Man City losing the champions league final was a disappointment but then showing facts from when they were relegated from division 1 to say it's not.

I think here and now it can reasonably be considered somewhat of a failure if England get knocked out to Denmark given the players both teams has it's disposal and location the game is played at. It's also feasible to make a case as you have done that Gareth is a success in this tournament already especially with the Germany win.

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Hey not going to lie, you have a solid argument when you bring up these facts.

A lot of these tournaments were outright failures. Under Gareth Southgate we can clearly see there is an improvement especially with the mentality of the team and we can agree that he more than likely isn't going to be an outright failure.

We also have to consider how good the current England team is, how good the other countries are now and how good England were in these tournaments vs how good other countries were. Not withstanding the fact that more countries qualify for the Euros now, so even the wally with a brolly could make it to a major tournament if he managed England today.

Here and now this England team is far and away on paper the best England team on paper since 2008, we're playing 90% of the games at home with a favourable draw. It's kind of like saying Man City losing the champions league final was a disappointment but then showing facts from when they were relegated from division 1 to say it's not.

I think here and now it can reasonably be considered somewhat of a failure if England get knocked out to Denmark given the players both teams has it's disposal and location the game is played at. It's also feasible to make a case as you have done that Gareth is a success in this tournament already especially with the Germany win.

Well yes. But let’s look at the England teams of the past

Ferdinand, Lampard, Scholes, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen etc would all get in the current side.

 

[JL1985]

He’s calm, realistic and trust worthy. The players seem to love him but he doesn’t pander to them like Sven or Capello did.

 

[chopsfc007]

We’ve got to two semi-finals in a row mate. We’d only ever got to three in our history before he took charge. How on earth people can think he’s doing a bad job is mind-blowing.

Please tell me where I said he was

So beating teams we should beat isn't doing a good job?

Let's beat more big teams as well like Germany fair play for that we didn't in the world cup

 

[deleted user 785]

Yes man apparently

 

[Whitburnmakem]

Couldn’t pick a bad team even
If he tried with that squad

 

[percy]

If we don't win the tournament the told you so brigade will be out In force the moment the ref blows the final whistle.

Was about to post same.

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

The whole country owes him an apology, nobody thought he was the right man for the job but he's took England from possibly the worst we've ever been to the two best tournament performances in my lifetime

The ‘whole country’ and ‘nobody’ is just wrong.

 

[chopsfc007]

Couldn’t pick a bad team even
If he tried with that squad

He's doing fine just saying is beating Panama, Tunisia, Sweden, Colombia on pens doing good job or is it beating teams you should with talent available, he's beaten Germany which is good and hopefully we have the final and beat another good team, like it or not he will be judged in these types of games rather than beating average opponents.

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

Couldn’t pick a bad team even
If he tried with that squad

That wasn’t what was being said just last week in some quarters!

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

Couldn’t pick a bad team even
If he tried with that squad

Look at post 8 on the thread

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

He's doing fine just saying is beating Panama, Tunisia, Sweden, Colombia on pens doing good job or is it beating teams you should with talent available, he's beaten Germany which is good and hopefully we have the final and beat another good team, like it or not he will be judged in these types of games rather than beating average opponents.

Well he’ll be judged by different metrics according to different people’s perception of where we’re at.

He’ll be rewarded with a new contract by his employers based upon the performance of England at the last two tournaments so, ‘like it or not’, he’s already been adjudged to be doing a good job.

 

[Whitburnmakem]

That wasn’t what was being said just last week in some quarters!

Because it’s true we were expected to win something with Matthew upson at the back years ago we have 3 or 4 100 million pound players on the bench now

 

[Sunderlandafc2020]

Well yes. But let’s look at the England teams of the past

Ferdinand, Lampard, Scholes, Cole, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen etc would all get in the current side.

I don't think they all would.

 

[rentaghost]

Please tell me where I said he was

Let's beat more big teams as well like Germany fair play for that we didn't in the world cup

3 semi final under Southgate in 3 years. 3 semi semi finals in the previous 90 years and people still whinge on. Lets face it he wasn't your choice and hes making a complete mug of you and many others.