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Southampton spying compendium thread

Dog in a pram said:
It will have been a horse trade today.

They will have told Southampton they were getting the book thrown at them and Southampton know they dont have a leg to stand on, but they do have a right to an appeal with set timescales to allow them to prepare their case.

That would screw any chance of this weekend going ahead so EFL will have said you are out of the final - non negotiable. If you kick up a stink we will push for a punitive points deduction. Agree to play ball and submit your appeal tomorrow we will knock off a 4 point deduction.

If not Southampton would be able to bring a case against EFL for not being allowed the published time to appeal.
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None of that will have happened. What will have happened is that Southampton will know that the sanction will apply unless and until overturned so they need to get moving. The EFL will know that they don't want any the chaos that will ensue if the appeal is heard within its normal timescales (i.e. after the Playoff Final). So they've both agreed to expedite it.
 

stapler said:
Unless there was some procedural error that makes it necessary to do justice, it will not be a rehearing. It will be a review of the original decision. The focus will be on the decision that was made and the reasons given for it rather than this bit of evidence, that bit of evidence, and t'other bit of evidence.

Given the misconduct appears to have been admitted, it is unlikely that there was much in the way of evidence anyway. The basic purpose of evidence is to resolve factual disputes. Where there are admitted or agreed facts, the decision maker applies the rules to those facts.

If the only issue is the proportionality of the sanction, then they should be able to hear all the arguments and render a decision pretty sharpish. I've done much more complicated appeals in less than a day, with a decision given then and there.

Obviously it is not my decision to make, so my views are irrelevant. But I don't envy Southampton's legal team. It is likely that they will have to convince 2 out of 3 of the arbitrators (who will all be barristers, solicitors, or professional arbitrators) that the decision was one that no reasonable decision maker could have made. It won't (shouldn't) be enough to convince the arbitrators that they themselves might have made a different decision in the shoes of the original decision maker. A tricky task.
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They can still make it difficult for the EFL I believe if they want to argue procedural grounds. There is no doubt that the process has had to be rushed through due to the circumstances and things like the 14 day rule have been discarded with. If they agreed to that then it maybe weakens their case but seems some suggestions they could appeal today on the timeline and if successful it creates a nightmare for the EFL with dates.

They also still could, although the chances are low, apply for an injunction today even if they lose and take further action outside of the EFL process.
 
Sounds like it will all come out as a lot of the detail is now coming from Southampton whistleblowers.

If Southampton had any sense they would get ahead of it, start sacking people and show some contrition. They are going to have to in the end anyway.

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Think there is more to come on this and I think Southampton are fucked. They have admited some of it and that just happens to be fans they didn’t win when on a ridiculously good run. It’s all so blatant as well, they have been sending people in other clubs tracksuits to avoid getting sussed, they knew they shouldn’t be doing it. The manager will get sacked and if he does not then people further up knew about it, he will probably be banned as well. I can see sides like Wrexham and Derby suing them for missing out on the play offs, I think they will have players trying to get out of contracts as well and the think the more it blows up they end up either in league 1 or so many points deducted they end up relegation while having to pay out a stupid amount of money they won’t have
 
halfpast3 said:
Think there is more to come on this and I think Southampton are fucked. They have admited some of it and that just happens to be fans they didn’t win when on a ridiculously good run. It’s all so blatant as well, they have been sending people in other clubs tracksuits to avoid getting sussed, they knew they shouldn’t be doing it. The manager will get sacked and if he does not then people further up knew about it, he will probably be banned as well. I can see sides like Wrexham and Derby suing them for missing out on the play offs, I think they will have players trying to get out of contracts as well and the think the more it blows up they end up either in league 1 or so many points deducted they end up relegation while having to pay out a stupid amount of money they won’t have
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Their only defence against their players will be to admit their players knew about it. I would be amazed if they didn’t.
 
Arfa Sleep said:
Not really, they still have plenty of time to prepare.
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I think so, it just isn't fair at all.

They have to face a Middlesbrough side with zero pressure, rejuvenated from a chance provided they didnt think they would get. And 2 days to prepare when they should have had 9, it's beyond farcical.

Yep, Southampton cheated, but Boro still had the opportunity to beat them. Hull, just getting shafted.
 
Had a read on the Southampton forum. A lot thinking it's far too harsh a punishment and the EFL have pandered to Boros demands. They seem to think it should have been a fine.

I have no skin in either camp but the only fair sanction was a sporting one. They sought to and potentially did gain sporting advantage by cheating. Any fine would pale in comparison to the increase in revenue of getting back to the PL.

The fact they admitted to 2 other cases in games they lost is interesting. I suspect that was to show cooperation to try and lessen the punishment without getting more heat for admitting spying in games they won. Strongly suspect they've been doing it in a more widespread capacity and that's the angle the EFL should reiterate to them. Take this punishment and we draw a line under this and won't look any further into other instances.

I can see the EFL dropping the points deduction on appeal but not the expulsion from the play offs.

Once this is all over you can't help but think a lot of senior heads will roll at the club. Feel for the fans and most of the players as it's not their fault the club decided to cheat.
 
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The Southampton supporters won’t be laughing now. It’s going to get worse for Southampton. Players suing the club and tearing up their contracts . The LND will be out at the first opportunity . Even the sponsors may bail out due to the toxicity of being linked with Southampton
 
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I reckon the 4 points deduction was put in there as a way of partially reducing the punishment if appealed, they can remove or suspend it and say they have listened to their lawyers. Can’t see the playoff decision being changed.
 
MonkeyLove said:
I joked the other day that if the lad had bought a Boro shirt from Sports Direct on the way up he would likely have just been taken for a fan and simply told to move on.

Seems they actually allegedly tried it elsewhere.

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:lol: mental how meticulous they were, bet they had people scouting ways of getting in or to find vantage points the lot
 
halfpast3 said:
Think there is more to come on this and I think Southampton are fucked. They have admited some of it and that just happens to be fans they didn’t win when on a ridiculously good run. It’s all so blatant as well, they have been sending people in other clubs tracksuits to avoid getting sussed, they knew they shouldn’t be doing it. The manager will get sacked and if he does not then people further up knew about it, he will probably be banned as well. I can see sides like Wrexham and Derby suing them for missing out on the play offs, I think they will have players trying to get out of contracts as well and the think the more it blows up they end up either in league 1 or so many points deducted they end up relegation while having to pay out a stupid amount of money they won’t have
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If that doesn't happen it bloody well should. I mean if they thought it was necessary to spy on Oxford it highly unlikely that they didn't think Coventry was worth a covert visit.

Southampton beat Coventry away 1 -2 in March which was only the second of two home defeats that Coventry had all season the first was against Ipswich
 
Sam Handwich said:
The power of the player has never been higher than it is now. I think this is going to be disastrous for Southampton.
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I agree but not in the way you mean. I think there will be evidence that the players knew about it from their training briefings and they will not be able to sue the club successfully. Given that Hull have beaten them twice this season they may well have lost on Saturday and not got their Premier League pay rises anyway.

However, I do think good players will be reluctant to join Southampton and face the insults, abuse and ridicule that is coming their way next season. Every Champo team will be looking to raise their game against Southampton.
 
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