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Southampton spying compendium thread


Medulla said:
The interesting thing here for me is whether there's evidence that this goes beyond one match, because if there's a pattern of cheating this season then I think there's a very strong case for them to be thrown out.

Whether they have time to get to the bottom of that might be the issue. Not even sure whether they are looking at that

It's a bit of a nightmare for the EFL - can you imagine finding them guilty and then having them win the final? But also apparently if they're thrown out they'll have to move the final to a midweek.

I reckon a points deduction is most likely but who knows
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I don’t disagree, but EFL can’t impose a PL points deduction, so if they go that route and Southampton go up they don’t get punished effectively anyway. Not until their next relegation anyway.

It’s a right mess, but I do feel expulsion if proven is the only viable option
 
bedlington mackem said:
Tbh i dont know what possessed Southampton to do this....they were the team bang in form , should have been able to take care of Boro without resorting to any kind of cheating
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Maybe explains why they were bang in form to begin with?
si73 said:
And anything other than expulsion from the competition sends the message that its fine to cheat. Then next season its a free for all. Might as well not have the rule on the books.

Southampton CANNOT be allowed to be promoted. It's that simple. Anything else IS NOT a suitable punishment. The EFL has to be seen to come down hard otherwise the precedent is then set that you can cheat to win promotion.

Fines are meaningless because the financial rewards are many times more than any fine would be. Points deductions or transfer embargos don't have to be enforced by the PL so also meaningless.

The first leg against Burra should be forfeited, 3-0 home win. Over 2 legs that means Burra go to the final 4-2 on aggregate. If they dont want to/can't do that, then the final is played as is, but it has to be the situation we found ourselves in in 1990. Win or lose Southampton will not be promoted due to cheating.

Then in the summer the EFL can investigate any other allegations from other clubs and add any additional punishments up to and including demotion down the leagues and/or a ban for the manager involved.

This will never ever happen again if they deal with it robustly in this first real test case for the rule. It's a Pandora's box situation which needs a strong statement of intent sending out.

Personally I'd fling the book at them.
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I think they’ll delay punishment until after Saturday in the hope hull win on the field. A hull win removes their problem so to speak without too much issue - they can then issue a fine or minor points deduction next season and forget it. Problem is if Southampton win - but then I think they’d go the Swindon 1990 route and promote Hull regardless.
 
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If boro don't get reinstated . Will.the fans be holding a candle 🕯 light vigil for the coach who will no doubt cry when been interviewed again Like a full length cheblength...
Maybe put kleenex hankies in front of him
New sponsorship for club ..
Every cloud ☁️ and that ....
 
bedlington mackem said:
Tbh i dont know what possessed Southampton to do this....they were the team bang in form , should have been able to take care of Boro without resorting to any kind of cheating
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This! Not exactly Barcelona are they. They’ve been the best side in the championship for best part of half a season. Be very surprised if they get booted out the playoffs. They should. But they won’t
 
FatDrummer said:
The EFL are running rapidly out of time. They cannot please every club.
But a decision HAS to be made and ANY decision that changes the date of the play-off final is a direct slap in the face to the Hull fans.
No doubt some Southampton fans will have laid out substantial amounts of money based on the game taking place as originally planned and while their club appears to be guilty, they as supporters are not.
Same thing happened with Swindon, but they at least had the day in the sun before it was all taken from them.

Boro have little argument in my eyes.
They were beaten over the two legs. That is 210 minutes of football. Are they REALLY saying that the ‘spying’ before the first leg affected both legs and the extra-time at Southampton?
Naaah….that is a feeble argument at best.

Punish Southampton for their indiscretions, but the final must take place on the correct date, just as our play-off final v Swindon did.
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Of course the spying did not influence the result, but an offence has been committed, and as the offence was not related to an actual incident on the pitch, and is therefore not subject to the usual haphazard outcome resulting from VAR or rank bad refereeing, it seems logical that the EFL will come down heavy on Southampton; therefore, the punishment will exceed the crime and Boro will probably contest the final with Hull.
 
This is exactly why punishments should be written in from the start.

It says it’s against the rules and you’ll be punished if caught spying. That’s too vague though. Fine, points deduction, expulsion - which is it?

Made a right arse of it by not putting the punishments set in stone.

Now we’re in this situation where no one has a clue what’s going to happen - and we’re 4 days away from the final.

Shambolic.
 
bedlington mackem said:
Tbh i dont know what possessed Southampton to do this....they were the team bang in form , should have been able to take care of Boro without resorting to any kind of cheating
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But where they?

Their apparently indomitable run of results, which saw them rocket up the league, beat the PL champions elect in the cup and dent the hopes of a few play off rivals, is looking more and more like it came about, not from some new manager bounce or tactical mastermind implementing new formations or even the return to fitness of missing players, but actually from cheating.

If that proves to be the case, and it seems to be pretty certain given the strong circumstantial evidence being played out in the media and Southampton ADMITTING the Burra charge, they only got into play off places illegal in terms of the rules of the game AND the spirit of the competition.
 
PoolsMackem123 said:
I don’t disagree, but EFL can’t impose a PL points deduction, so if they go that route and Southampton go up they don’t get punished effectively anyway. Not until their next relegation anyway.

It’s a right mess, but I do feel expulsion if proven is the only viable option
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Spying is taken extremely seriously in football - rightly or wrongly. It's right up there with doping and gambling offences in terms of the punishments handed out by FIFA.

Given the time pressure, I think the EFL should present what evidence they have to Southampton and offer them the chance to accept the charges and face explosion from the play offs, or contest the charges and face retrospective expulsion this season and a heavy points deduction next season if found guilty.

It seems certain that a paid employee spied on a rival in direct contravention of the rules. I'm not sure they have a leg to stand on if the EFL called. their bluff.
 
SAFC Wilks said:
This is exactly why punishments should be written in from the start.

It says it’s against the rules and you’ll be punished if caught spying. That’s too vague though. Fine, points deduction, expulsion - which is it?

Made a right arse of it by not putting the punishments set in stone.

Now we’re in this situation where no one has a clue what’s going to happen - and we’re 4 days away from the final.

Shambolic.
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Aye, it’s poor from the EFL. This should have been put to bed a week ago
 
not spavin said:
Spying is taken extremely seriously in football - rightly or wrongly. It's right up there with doping and gambling offences in terms of the punishments handed out by FIFA.

Given the time pressure, I think the EFL should present what evidence they have to Southampton and offer them the chance to accept the charges and face explosion from the play offs, or contest the charges and face retrospective expulsion this season and a heavy points deduction next season if found guilty.

It seems certain that a paid employee spied on a rival in direct contravention of the rules. I'm not sure they have a leg to stand on if the EFL called. their bluff.
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This is exactly what is happening at the hearing today. I’m just giving my prediction as to what I feel will be their outcome. The hearing will only determine guilt - it’s then up to the EFL to ratify a punishment if found guilty following that judgement by the independent panel.
 
PoolsMackem123 said:
I don’t disagree, but EFL can’t impose a PL points deduction, so if they go that route and Southampton go up they don’t get punished effectively anyway. Not until their next relegation anyway.
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There is a working directive between the two league where one can recommend a deduction to the other, was put in place after Leicester (iirc) got a deduction in the EFL but went up and started on 0 in the PL
 
Lo Ursem said:
Of course the spying did not influence the result, but an offence has been committed, and as the offence was not related to an actual incident on the pitch, and is therefore not subject to the usual haphazard outcome resulting from VAR or rank bad refereeing, it seems logical that the EFL will come down heavy on Southampton; therefore, the punishment will exceed the crime and Boro will probably contest the final with Hull.
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Agree,also if Southampton get away with it whats to stop others trying it .If proven it should be a Hull v Boro final
 
woodlebert said:
There is a working directive between the two league where one can recommend a deduction to the other, was put in place after Leicester (iirc) got a deduction in the EFL but went up and started on 0 in the PL
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Yea that’s a new innovation, but also not guaranteed and at the discretion of the PL. not something the EFL can just decide and no reason the PL has to accept it either
 
stevo said:
Agree,also if Southampton get away with it whats to stop others trying it .If proven it should be a Hull v Boro final
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Only counter argument would be to a Hull automatic promotion rather than a Boro reinstatement. Ultimately I don’t think that the spying caused the Boro loss, so hard to argue they deserve to have the chance to beat Hull.

You’re right about the precedent too - new rule and it’ll define football for years if they get this wrong, as it’s a big advantage to take potentially if you can get away with a small fine - I’m sure most teams would pay £200k to see the other playoff teams training session
homeless kid said:
Is the EFL governance board or whatever meeting happening today?
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Yes. Independent panel review who’ll issue a verdict and if guilty will pass back to the EFL to ratify the punishment. So would expect a verdict but no punishment today.
 
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